OL vs QB, be carefull what you wish for

[AU-panther]

For all those that want OL instead of QB, which is a valid thought, what if:

We draft a LT that plays well his first year

BC moves to guard and plays well

Our new OL coach, who has a great reputation, helps improve the rest of the line.

Our WR core plays up to their potential.

CMC comes back healthy and stays that way.

Our new OC helps Sam improve.

Horn comes back healthy.  

The other young guys on defense continue to improve.

We go 9-8 and 

Tepper decides to keep Rhule 

and we 

Resign Sam

Sometimes you have to be careful what you wish for in life.

Honestly by being greedy and waiting to get a new QB we actually might increase our chances of not getting a rookie QB at all.

 

 

[TheCasillas]

The only way we would resign Sam Darnold is if he throws for over 4k yards and 30+ TDs and less than 10 TOs.  If that happened, our OC would be gone after this year for another HC gig. 

[Michael G]

I do not think its certain Sam is the starter this year. The improved OL play you suggest may go to helping resign whoever comes in the replace Sam. I agree with the previous post. Sam would have to really ball out for us to resign him.

[Waldo]

I would literally bet against those things happening and I do not even bet on things. 

[Growl]

7 minutes ago, Waldo said:

I would literally bet against those things happening and I do not even bet on things. 

there’s nothing fantastical about the idea that the team improves to mediocrity and strands themselves there, it happens all the time and is usually the end result of playing the cutesy minimum investment plays we’ve made at the QB position.

honestly the panthers have been pretty fortunate so far, they’ve absolutely made the moves to solidify themselves right in the center of the draft. Keep building aRoUnd ThE QuaRteRbaCk and you’re likely to entrench yourself there.

Edited February 15, 2022 by Growl

[BlitzMonster]

If the team makes a bunch of good decisions and has a much improved season next year, I'm all for it.  And if most of those moves are due to Rhule then great, he's learning on the job and becoming a much better coach.

It's the Rhule of the last 2 years that I don't want to see rehired.  If he performs much better than that, let him keep coaching.  

As to Sam, he's on a 1 year deal so he's surely gone.  If he morphed into some type of Pro Bowl QB, the Panthers would be bidding for his services with numerous other clubs.  And if he is just a game manager in 2022, the Panthers wouldn't really want him back.  At that point it's better to go with a higher upside rookie.  So Sam is leaving in almost any circumstance.  

Edited February 15, 2022 by BlitzMonster

[AU-panther]

6 minutes ago, Growl said:

there’s nothing fantastical about the idea that the team improves to mediocrity and strands themselves there, it happens all the time and is usually the end result of playing the cutesy minimum investment plays we’ve made at the QB position.

honestly the panthers have been pretty fortunate so far, they’ve absolutely made the moves to solidify themselves right in the center of the draft. Keep building aRoUnd ThE QuaRteRbaCk and you’re likely to entrench yourself there.

Even if you don't buy resigning Sam you could easily replace his name with some random "mid level" FA QB.

[NYPantherFan]

38 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

For all those that want OL instead of QB, which is a valid thought, what if:

We draft a LT that plays well his first year

BC moves to guard and plays well

Our new OL coach, who has a great reputation, helps improve the rest of the line.

Our WR core plays up to their potential.

CMC comes back healthy and stays that way.

Our new OC helps Sam improve.

Horn comes back healthy.  

The other young guys on defense continue to improve.

We go 9-8 and 

Tepper decides to keep Rhule 

and we 

Resign Sam

Sometimes you have to be careful what you wish for in life.

Honestly by being greedy and waiting to get a new QB we actually might increase our chances of not getting a rookie QB at all.

 

 

The assumption is that Darnold would be re-signed. If the oline plays better, I wouldnt be surprised to see Darnold play better. That doesn't mean they have to extend him.

If everyone improves as you suggest, there is real value in drafting a QB in 2023 and having that rookie contract. That value supercedes any form of success Darnold may have, at least in Fitterers mind.

[frankw]

39 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

Resign Sam

Darnold is entering his fifth year and statistically the worst QB in the NFL the last two seasons. For him to make a miraculous turnaround great enough for us to seek an extension would be like hitting the Powerball twice. That isn't optimism it is delusion.

[Waldo]

16 minutes ago, Growl said:

there’s nothing fantastical about the idea that the team improves to mediocrity and strands themselves there, it happens all the time and is usually the end result of playing the cutesy minimum investment plays we’ve made at the QB position.

honestly the panthers have been pretty fortunate so far, they’ve absolutely made the moves to solidify themselves right in the center of the draft. Keep building aRoUnd ThE QuaRteRbaCk and you’re likely to entrench yourself there.

We had a good enough QB for mediocrity the first year, we still won 5 games. We then went all in on Sam and won 5 games the next year with an extra game to play. Everything points to this crew doing another 5 game season. There isn't a good QB that is willing to come here and there does not look to be a QB in the draft that will make much positive impact on the 2022 season at this point. There is 2 years of factual evidence this crew is below mediocre and bringing in one good DB coach and a lot more NFL grade JAGs isn't really making your case.

We don't even have a QB to build around so I don't think that example really supports your position the way you think it does. 

 

[Waldo]

Just now, frankw said:

Darnold is entering his fifth year and statistically the worst QB in the NFL the last two seasons. For him to make a miraculous turnaround great enough for us to seek an extension would be like hitting the Powerball twice. That isn't optimism it is delusion.

He also is a worse QB with more time in the pocket. The build the oline and he will improve fantasy is just sad at this point. 

[AU-panther]

1 minute ago, frankw said:

Darnold is entering his fifth year and statistically the worst QB in the NFL the last two seasons. For him to make a miraculous turnaround great enough for us to seek an extension would be like hitting the Powerball twice. That isn't optimism it is delusion.

Jet fans probably said the same thing about hoping to get something in a trade for him.

Maybe its not resigning Sam, but signing some midlevel vet.  The point is still the same, for all the people hoping to wait a year to draft a QB.  We could potentially improve the team enough where we don't' end up drafting a QB in 2023.

 

[Growl]

2 minutes ago, Waldo said:

We had a good enough QB for mediocrity the first year, we still won 5 games. We then went all in on Sam and won 5 games the next year with an extra game to play. Everything points to this crew doing another 5 game season. There isn't a good QB that is willing to come here and there does not look to be a QB in the draft that will make much positive impact on the 2022 season at this point. There is 2 years of factual evidence this crew is below mediocre and bringing in one good DB coach and a lot more NFL grade JAGs isn't really making your case.

We don't even have a QB to build around so I don't think that example really supports your position the way you think it does. 

 

Your premise is flawed, it’s centered around the idea that a team makes a QB, and not that a QB makes a team. We’ve seen more than enough evidence to prove that. A franchise QB is going to bring out a lot of positives, and diminish and a lot of flaws. Saying you don’t see a “franchise QB” in this class is not only subjective, it’s irrelevant. 
 

Drafting a QB in the top 10 is about as good of odds you’re going to get on finding a franchise guy, and if he flops extraordinary, then you’re in a position to take another guy. Either is preferable to the idea of “building around the QB” or “leaning on the run game” that so many here have so many nostalgic memories of and long to see replicated, because you’re just going to end up picking 10 or 15 or 19 or 21 year in and year out and likely out of reach for what it takes to build a team that can contend for a super bowl-a Quarterback.

also, “make much positive impact on the 2022 season”

who cares? What does this mean? The point of the draft isn’t about “making a positive impact on the current season.”

it’s about evaluating opportunity cost relative to impact over the course of the next 10 seasons. 

[onmyown]

As much as I hate the qb moves made so far, really the only opportunity to get one in the past several years was Herbert, and no one really knows how feasible that was.

There was Lamar Jackson if the FO had the foresight to see Cam was done. But we did still have Cam.

Corse this is based on Fields and Jones not working out which I find hard to fathom.

And no I’m not considering FAs since they laugh when they hear the Panthers.

Building a stout team first or until the opportunity arises isn’t exactly a bad plan, nor a disproven blue print. The problem is if you’re not finding a qb you can’t be doing dumb poo (trading for Darnold, amateur drafts moves) and you actually have to be building that stout team.

The Panthers aren’t doing that. In fact I’d argue they’re regressing.