Panthers favor Malik Willis?

[micnificent28]

36 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Not how I'd phrase the question. History shows you can win a Super Bowl with a guy like Trent Dilfer if you build a good enough team around him.

If you're asking whether or not Jackson is an elite level quarterback, my answer would be I'm not sure yet.

His physical traits are definitely elite, likely a step above Newton as both a runner and a passer. He's clearly a dangerous run threat and has a rocket launcher for an arm. As far as accuracy, based on what I've seen I'd put him above the Newton / Farve level but a few steps below the Brees / Brady level.

With regard to other intangibles, it's harder to say. He certainly wins plenty of games during the regular season, but also seems to fade during the playoffs. He'll need to get past that before he can really be thought of as up there with the others.

Whether or not he does will say a lot, but I'm not ready to predict either way.

A few things here I want to just state my opinion on where we differ. I think Jackson has a good arm.. but Newtons arm coming out dwarfs his in comparison. I think even Willis has a stronger arm than Lamar Jackson. I agree Jackson's accuracy seems better than both at any point. In terms of being more dangerous than Cam as a runner...

I dunno what are we judging it on? Rushing yards or nose for the enzone? Are we saying the guy with the all time record for rushing touchdowns isn't as more dangerous than Jackson? I think they are just two different style runners. Newton is Jerome Bettis, Derrick Henry type power runner, while Jackson is Micheal Vick, Barry sanders type speed guy. Hard to compare Newton because we have never seen a quarterback that plays the way he played... 

I think a guy who has won a MVP.. no matter how is ELITE. Maybe he doesn't fit the brand of football you think wins football games but to beat every other guy in the NFL period to be number 1 even for a year means your damn good at football.  I think as long as they have Jackson and a smart ravens front office and he remains healthy they have an above average shot at making the playoffs there for a decent chance at winning a championship.

[mc52beast]

5 hours ago, Donald LaFell said:

I’d rather get someone with a rocket arm after so many years of Cam’s shoulder or just crappy QBs in general. 

Jeff George had a “rocket arm” and was a total basket case. 

[Mr. Scot]

3 minutes ago, micnificent28 said:

A few things here I want to just state my opinion on where we differ. I think Jackson has a good arm.. but Newtons arm coming out dwarfs his in comparison. I think even Willis has a stronger arm than Lamar Jackson. I agree Jackson's accuracy seems better than both at any point. In terms of being more dangerous than Cam as a runner...

I dunno what are we judging it on? Rushing yards or nose for the enzone? Are we saying the guy with the all time record for rushing touchdowns isn't as more dangerous than Jackson? I think they are just two different style runners. Newton is Jerome Bettis, Derrick Henry type power runner, while Jackson is Micheal Vick, Barry sanders type speed guy. Hard to compare Newton because we have never seen a quarterback that plays the way he played... 

I think a guy who has won a MVP.. no matter how is ELITE. Maybe he doesn't fit the brand of football you think wins football games but to beat every other guy in the NFL period to be number 1 even for a year means your damn good at football.  I think as long as they have Jackson and a smart ravens front office and he remains healthy they have an above average shot at making the playoffs there for a decent chance at winning a championship.

Dude, you know I don't go by stats.

But I don't go by awards either, especially given that if you look back at history you'll see that MVPs generally don't win the Super Bowl in the same year (sometimes not at all).

It's the same with "Coach of the Year". People spent a lot of time propping up Ron Rivera because he was a two-time Coach of the Year. It was ultimately meaningless.

I have always, and will always, go by what my eyes tell me.

[Mr. Scot]

2 minutes ago, mc52beast said:

Jeff George had a “rocket arm” and was a total basket case. 

Yep. And several teams signed him thinking they could be the ones to maximize that physical talent.

Nobody ever really succeeded.

[micnificent28]

32 minutes ago, mc52beast said:

Jeff George had a “rocket arm” and was a total basket case. 

I think the idea is to have that and then some. Having a rocket arm is 1 trait that allows you to do more than the average qb. When a guy says he can make all the throws it means he has the arm strength and rocket arm to fit throws in contested tight windows. Now that doesn't this is the only way to be successful but with the evolution of the NFL guys getting bigger and faster its important as ever.

 

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, micnificent28 said:

I think the idea is to have that and then some. Having a rocket arm is 1 trait that allows you to do more than the average qb. When a guy says he can make all the throws it means he has the arm strength and rocket arm to fit throws in contested tight windows. Now that doesn't this is the only way to be successful but with the evolution of the NFL guys getting bigger and faster its important as ever.

 

Only if he's accurate...

Remember, the goal on a football play isn't to throw the ball the farthest or the hardest. The goal is to throw it to a spot.

Being able to throw it as far as Uncle Rico doesn't matter if it doesn't go where it's supposed to go.

[micnificent28]

39 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Dude, you know I don't go by stats.

But I don't go by awards either, especially given that if you look back at history you'll see that MVPs generally don't win the Super Bowl in the same year (sometimes not at all).

It's the same with "Coach of the Year". People spent a lot of time propping up Ron Rivera because he was a two-time Coach of the Year. It was ultimately meaningless.

I have always, and will always, go by what my eyes tell me.

That's fair... not telling you your wrong just asking your opinion. I'm usually here year round but don't post or comment as much until draft season because I find it fascinating. I enjoy the metric and numbers of it all trying to find out who will be the next Patrick Mahomes and so on. 

I think your a pretty logical guy and maybe the most respected opinion on the forum. We all want the best possible pick for the franchise I think it's easier to identify that guy if I can put a number,measurement, percentage or time on why a guy is successful. It's easier to find that than say whatever Brady has that just works.. that gift can't really be seen. If so he wouldn't have went in the 6th round.

[Mr. Scot]

15 minutes ago, micnificent28 said:

That's fair... not telling you your wrong just asking your opinion. I'm usually here year round but don't post or comment as much until draft season because I find it fascinating. I enjoy the metric and numbers of it all trying to find out who will be the next Patrick Mahomes and so on. 

I think your a pretty logical guy and maybe the most respected opinion on the forum. We all want the best possible pick for the franchise I think it's easier to identify that guy if I can put a number,measurement, percentage or time on why a guy is successful. It's easier to find that than say whatever Brady has that just works.. that gift can't really be seen. If so he wouldn't have went in the 6th round.

I know some people pay attention to analytics and stuff, but I think most of the longtime draft guys would tell you it's not simple (they probably wish it was).

The problem with any form of stat based evaluation is that there are waaaay too many variables. Take completion percentage. A quarterback can throw a perfectly accurate pass but it counts against him if it isn't caught. Likewise it could be a terrible pass but if a receiver can make a circus catch, it helps the quarterback look better than he might really be.

And yeah, "next gen" folks can try to count drops or "catchable" throws, but those things are awfully subjective.

There's an old quote from Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart that says something along the lines of "I may not be able to define obscenity, but I know it when I see it".

I guess I'm kinda the same way when it comes to good football. I don't worry about the stats from this generation, the next generation or the last generation. I just watch the game.

Well, that and study it. Lady Cowboy Fan bought me Steve Belichick's "Football Scouting Methods" book for my birthday. She got me one by Neil Stratton for Christmas too.

You could always try reading stuff like that, but I don't think too many folks are that obsessed (like me)

Edited March 31, 2022 by Mr. Scot

[Catsfan69]

He's Johnny Manziel 2.0

[micnificent28]

23 minutes ago, Catsfan69 said:

He's Johnny Manziel 2.0

Stop it with these god awful comparisons 

[frankw]

22 minutes ago, Catsfan69 said:

He's Johnny Manziel 2.0

Oh you wanna late night shitpost huh?

[MHS831]

On 3/30/2022 at 7:38 PM, mc52beast said:

Jeff George had a “rocket arm” and was a total basket case. 

Possibly, if memory serves me, the best NFL arm ever. 

[KatsAzz]

My guess is that the Panthers will have their draft board set up depending on how the five picking in front of them draft.

Thankfully, they have the option of trading back for more seletions or taking the best QB or OT available.

Seems most pro scouts think QB  Willis, OT Evan Neal or OT Ekwonu are the ones the Panthers could draft,but's It’ depends o any of them being available at the # 6 pick.    .

 

[micnificent28]

1 hour ago, KatsAzz said:

My guess is that the Panthers will have their draft board set up depending on how the five picking in front of them draft.

Thankfully, they have the option of trading back for more seletions or taking the best QB or OT available.

Seems most pro scouts think QB  Willis, OT Evan Neal or OT Ekwonu are the ones the Panthers could draft,but's It’ depends o any of them being available at the # 6 pick.    .

 

Those 3 in any order is a win. And that's how it should be