The right coaching

[PantherPhann89]

42 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Saw this tweet this morning...

Goff better than Stafford? Nobody would have said that prior to this season.

What's the reason?

Coaching.

There's massive debate going on right now about what quarterback we need to take, and that's fine. But I'd argue the coaching decision is more important. We're going to need someone who can develop that young quarterback, whoever they may be.

Basically, if the Panthers don't get the right offensive coaching in place, we'll be shooting ourselves in the foot...again.

I agree with that wholeheartedly but I'd like to add that the player('s) need to fit the scheme...

Edited December 7, 2022 by PantherPhann89

[Mr. Scot]

10 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I am genuinely perplexed by this "development" idea on Goff. Can someone point out why this season he seems more "developed" than in previous seasons??

Statistically, he is basically doing the exact same thing he has done his entire NFL career.

Smith isn't the only analyst to mention it. But if all you look at is stats, you're not necessarily gonna see it. It comes from people watching him play.

Goff isn't the point though. He's an illustration, and there are others you could find.

The point is that we absolutely have to get the coaching right before we get the quarterback. Otherwise the impact of any draft pick we make is going to be blunted.

 

[Mr. Scot]

11 minutes ago, Jay Roosevelt said:

This is true and exactly why we don't want Steve Wilks being our head coach after this year.

See also: Staley, Brandon.

The thing about Wilks is if you hire him, it's pretty much critical that you get the right OC and offensive staff under him.

Can Wilks himself choose the right guys? Don't know, but that's the kind of thing you need to know.

[kungfoodude]

9 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Smith isn't the only analyst to mention it. But if all you look at is stats, you're not necessarily gonna see it. It comes from people watching him play.

Goff isn't the point though. He's an illustration, and there are others you could find.

The point is that we absolutely have to get the coaching right before we get the quarterback. Otherwise the impact of any draft pick we make is going to be blunted.

 

I didn't mention the play because I just assumed that most people could kind of tell that it wasn't drastically different. Do you really not remember him on the Rams?

Edited December 7, 2022 by kungfoodude

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, kungfoodude said:

I didn't mention the play because I just assumed that most people could kind of tell that it was drastically different. Do you really not remember him on the Rams?

Yeah, I do.

I remember Stafford on the Lions too.

Genuinely think that trade benefited both of them.

(which I honestly wasn't expecting)

[kungfoodude]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Yeah, I do.

I remember Stafford on the Lions too.

Genuinely think that trade benefited both of them.

(which I honestly wasn't expecting)

I think people are confusing 2021 Goff and 2022 Goff improvements with being Goff career improvements.

He has been better than last season in this offense, without question. He isn't dumping the ball off all the time like he did in 2021.

But this season also isn't a dramatic departure from him in that McVay offense. 

[Aussie Tank]

Thank fug he never came here 

[Jay Roosevelt]

22 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

The thing about Wilks is if you hire him, it's pretty much critical that you get the right OC and offensive staff under him.

Can Wilks himself choose the right guys? Don't know, but that's the kind of thing you need to know.

It doesn't matter, though. Because any good offensive staff is almost certainly going to get hired away to be head coaches in relatively short order if they produce results here.

That's the real benefit to having a good offensive-minded HC. You always have that mind in the building regardless of who else is on-staff. Andy Reid is the perfect example.

If you can get the right HC/QB combo then you're set for the long haul. If you only get one side of it, then you get what we saw with Ron Rivera and Cam Newton. Maybe some short-term success, but in the long run it likely falls apart. I'm not entirely convinced we won't see a repeat of this in Buffalo in the next few years.

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, stbugs said:

I’m confused. I understand you are trying to pose the we need a coach who can develop a QB, which makes sense but are you trying to say Goff’s history is bad and that the Lions are the reason he’s succeeding? Goff was the number 1 pick and he was coached by McVay. He also was pretty close to winning a Super Bowl. Are you saying McVay made him worse? As posted above, Goff did as well with the Rams before he started to have some troubles 

Also, on Stafford, he had an elbow issue in preseason, so he hasn’t been healthy all year and his OL was decimated (Whitworth and Corbett left too). The point above is correct thy Stafford hasn’t been right all year. Just like Ryan, I think he’s on his way down, hence my wanting the Burns deal done.

Yeah, Goff gets way too much criticism for being a bad QB. He has really never been a bad QB in his career. He's been mediocre at times but overall he's a pretty good QB.

 

[MasterAwesome]

27 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Smith isn't the only analyst to mention it. But if all you look at is stats, you're not necessarily gonna see it. It comes from people watching him play.

Goff isn't the point though. He's an illustration, and there are others you could find.

The point is that we absolutely have to get the coaching right before we get the quarterback. Otherwise the impact of any draft pick we make is going to be blunted.

 

Where in Smith's tweet in your OP does he suggest that Goff is playing the best football of his career?  And that he's way better than before?  Because that's the part of your argument that people are challenging, and nothing about Smith's tweet corroborates that opinion.  His tweet simply says Goff is playing better than Stafford right now and essentially that the trade worked out for both parties.

[PNW_PantherMan]

There are better examples of this like the Geno/Russell situation.  32 year old bust QB playing the best football of his career vs star QB that turned into Baker Mayfield with his new coach and team.

[top dawg]

1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

Goff was playing better than Stafford before he was hurt.

But setting Stafford aside, the fact that Goff is playing well at all given his history is a testament to the power of coaching.

I mean, Goff was never all that bad in the first place, just young and unseasoned from what I recall. 

McVay was supposed to be this  wunderkind coach also, so what's the deal? It could be simply a lesson in being impatient, or maybe just striking while the perceived fire is hot. 

On kind of an off note, they went in with their eyes wide open. Some people said that they were going to have to pay for the deal once all was said and done. They won a chip, now the chickens have come home to roost. It's the cost of doing business...their way.

Edited December 7, 2022 by top dawg

[top dawg]

I meant to say "while the iron is hot," but y'all get my drift.

[Mr. Scot]

1 hour ago, PNW_PantherMan said:

There are better examples of this like the Geno/Russell situation.  32 year old bust QB playing the best football of his career vs star QB that turned into Baker Mayfield with his new coach and team.

I'd agree that Smith is an excellent example.

The guy coaching him is also a potential head coaching candidate for us.

(as is the guy coaching Goff)