The Tight End question

[frankw]

4 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I see we're still trying to push a dumb agenda in the middle of good times

Holding our general manager to his words is a "dumb agenda"? Yeah I'm happy about our coaching staff too. I'll be thrilled if and when we draft our QB in the first and develop him. But I can also acknowledge mistakes and not just blame it all on Matt Rhule. You can't handle that because you are smitten with Scott like you've got a personal bromance going with the guy. That isn't consistent with the standard you employed for Marty Hurney and anyone who has read enough of your 130 thousand posts knows this. But you do you and enjoy your weekend 🫶

[LinvilleGorge]

Fitterer definitely spoke glowingly about Ian Thomas and his 20mph GPS speed and thought he was getting a steal of a deal with that "mid-level" contract.

Scot just suffers from massive PTSD from Hurney that leads to defending anything and everything any other GM does. LOL!

[Pejorative Miscreant]

55 minutes ago, frankw said:

I see we're still entertaining the notion Fitterer had nothing to do with signing Ian Thomas to that absurd contract extension.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CanKB0qpxga/?utm_medium=twitter

This was a SMH/WTF issue when it happened.  If I am giving Fitt the benefit of the doubt I would think he was on the WTF side of it but Rhule held the keys to the kingdom so he kept giving Rhule the rope to hang himself. 
 

We will probably never no but I suspect why Fitt is still around is because he kept documentation on all of this crap so it landed on Rhule. The next season or two should give us some idea as it has been stated that he is in charge of putting the 53 together. 

[Mr. Scot]

12 minutes ago, frankw said:

Holding our general manager to his words is a "dumb agenda"? Yeah I'm happy about our coaching staff too. I'll be thrilled if and when we draft our QB in the first and develop him. But I can also acknowledge mistakes and not just blame it all on Matt Rhule. You can't handle that because you are smitten with Scott like you've got a personal bromance going with the guy. That isn't consistent with the standard you employed for Marty Hurney and anyone who has read enough of your 130 thousand posts knows this. But you do you and enjoy your weekend 🫶

Oy

No more "smitten" with Fitterer than I "hated" Hurney. I just have an understanding of front office dynamics that you clearly don't.

But keep trying, dude

[NanuqoftheNorth]

33 minutes ago, Pejorative Miscreant said:

We will probably never no but I suspect why Fitt is still around is because he kept documentation on all of this crap so it landed on Rhule. The next season or two should give us some idea as it has been stated that he is in charge of putting the 53 together. 

This. 

From the outside looking in, it is difficult, if not impossible, to know what role Fitterer played in all the questionable player personnel decisions of Rhule's era.  In order not to throw the baby out with the bathwater it appears that Tepper is giving Scott the benefit of the doubt. 

We may never know the level of responsibility Fitterer played in Darnold's 5th year, Robbie's outrageous contract or the Thomas affair.  All costly self-inflicted wounds.  Perhaps, all we can hope for, with Reich onboard, is that Fitterer finds his groove and the two of them become a successful duo for years to come.  

[NanuqoftheNorth]

I'll also add this about Fitterer:  Chances are he has only one season to demonstrate his value to Reich and these other veteran coaches.  I seriously doubt Frank and company will suffer fools lightly.

[Mr. Scot]

46 minutes ago, NanuqoftheNorth said:

From the outside looking in, it is difficult, if not impossible, to know what role Fitterer played in all the questionable player personnel decisions of Rhule's era.  In order not to throw the baby out with the bathwater it appears that Tepper is giving Scott the benefit of the doubt. 

We may never know the level of responsibility Fitterer played in Darnold's 5th year, Robbie's outrageous contract or the Thomas affair.  All costly self-inflicted wounds.  Perhaps, all we can hope for, with Reich onboard, is that Fitterer finds his groove and the two of them become a successful duo for years to come.  

There are some things we know from behind the scenes reporting...

Fitterer made the call on the fifth year option, but pretty much everything else quarterback related was Rhule.

It's also been told that if somebody didn't buy in on a particular decision, Rhule would "work to gain their agreement"... which basically translated to badgering them about it until they finally gave in. That way he could say "See, they agreed with me" and, if necessary, pass the buck.

(his post firing interviews have been pretty clear examples of how he operates in terms of taking responsibility) 

In a standard NFL front office, the head coach tells the GM what he needs and the GM does his best to go out and get it. The coaches in such cases generally don't set compensation or trade terms, so it makes for a good check and balance system.

In ours, The head coach had final say. That meant if he wanted a player to stay or be gone, that's what was gonna happen. And while he didn't necessarily set salaries or anything like that, dictating that you had to pay a guy no matter what limits your negotiating options.

So yeah, it's true that we don't know everything that happened, but these are the things we do know.

We also know that the guy who does know everything that went on fired Matt Rhule and handed the responsibility for hiring his replacement over to Scott Fitterer. You can at least infer something from that.

Even now though, you're not looking at a situation where Fitterer just tells Reich "these are the players I'm giving you, deal with it". Both men are known for being very collaborative in their approach (and genuinely so, not Matt Rhule style collaborative) so this time I'd expect it to work like a real NFL front office.

I'd add that a couple of different analysts have mentioned that Tepper really likes Fitterer. When people questioned how safe his position was this past offseason, Josh Klein replied "very" so I don't know how seriously to take the idea that he needs to prove himself.

If the team is a total disaster this year I could understand, but outside of that change doesn't seem likely.

You never know though. Crazier things have happened.

Edited February 25, 2023 by Mr. Scot

[Mr. Scot]

Back on topic...

[NanuqoftheNorth]

6 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I'd add that a couple of different analysts have mentioned that Tepper really likes Fitterer. When people questioned how safe his position was this past offseason, Josh Klein replied "very", so I don't know how seriously to take the idea that he needs to prove himself.

If the team is a total disaster this year I could understand, but outside of that change doesn't seem likely.

You never know though. Crazier things have happened.

We recall that Tepper has voiced unwavering confidence in several advisors over his 5 years of Panthers ownership.  Many, if not most of those people are now gone for failing to meet Dave's expectations.  

Granted, Tepper's learning curve was rather steep 5 years ago and it took less football knowledge to impress the man back then, than it does today.  Notably, in the last year or so Dave's choice of advisors appears to have improved exponentially. 

Fitterer may not be the GM Panthers fans hoped for, but he may be the GM we need.  With a much higher caliber of coaches in the building this season, there will be no place to hide for those who cannot carry their weight.

[NanuqoftheNorth]

33 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Back on topic...

"Now fully healthy I'm ready for War."

Panthers need multiple TEs that aren't currently on the roster.

Certainly wouldn't hurt to have a look.

[Mr. Scot]

51 minutes ago, NanuqoftheNorth said:

We recall that Tepper has voiced unwavering confidence in several advisors over his 5 years of Panthers ownership.  Many, if not most of those people are now gone for failing to meet Dave's expectations.  

Granted, Tepper's learning curve was rather steep 5 years ago and it took less football knowledge to impress the man back then, than it does today.  Notably, in the last year or so Dave's choice of advisors appears to have improved exponentially. 

Fitterer may not be the GM Panthers fans hoped for, but he may be the GM we need.  With a much higher caliber of coaches in the building this season, there will be no place to hide for those who cannot carry their weight.

Valid, but I have a hard time buying that he'd give as much leeway as he did in the coaching search to a guy he doesn't fully trust.

[NanuqoftheNorth]

4 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Valid, but I have a hard time buying that he'd give as much leeway as he did in the coaching search to a guy he doesn't fully trust.

I didn't follow the coaching search as closely as many here, but it left me with the impression that it was conducted by committee, a collaborative effort.  So, I honestly don't know how much credit Fitterer deserves for Reich's hire.

How heavily did Tepper actually rely on Fitterer in comparison to others in the room?  It seems natural that the GM would play a significant role, but at what point did Fitterer's predecessors, Hurney and Rhule, start losing their grip on power?  

Sunlight is the best disinfectant.  No more Hurney, no more Rhule.

Everyone in the Panthers office is playing nicely ATM.  However, if things continue to go sideways, Fitterer may find himself as the odd man out. 

[Mr. Scot]

15 minutes ago, NanuqoftheNorth said:

I didn't follow the coaching search as closely as many here, but it left me with the impression that it was conducted by committee, a collaborative effort.  So, I honestly don't know how much credit Fitterer deserves for Reich's hire.

How heavily did Tepper actually rely on Fitterer in comparison to others in the room?  It seems natural that the GM would play a significant role, but at what point did Fitterer's predecessors, Hurney and Rhule, start losing their grip on power?  

Sunlight is the best disinfectant.  No more Hurney, no more Rhule.

Everyone in the Panthers office is playing nicely ATM.  However, if things continue to go sideways, Fitterer may find himself as the odd man out. 

I did.

Fitterer ran the search along with Morgan and Samir Suleiman. Tepper and his wife sat in and later added Kristi Coleman.

After the interviews were all done, they asked everyone to vote. Tepper abstained so as not to influence anyone's choice. The expectation was that they'd discuss and perhaps debate the final options.

When everybody voted for Reich, that became moot.

[45catfan]

On 2/25/2023 at 3:14 PM, Mr. Scot said:

Back on topic...

Uh no.  Dude was out of football last year and put up marginal stats even when in the League.