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DARNOLD

CPcavedweller

By CPcavedweller,
in Carolina Panthers

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panthers55 Grand Master

panthers55

Posted
Posted
Just now, Barney said:

Passer rating in January in important games was 72.9 with 3 picks.  He was pressured and sacked more in those games. 

Why add the one game against the Saints once everything was decided. That wasn't a crucial game.  The games that counted were his first five. Go back and recalculate your math. In 4 of those 5 his rating was over 100 and combined it was  105. 

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Jon Snow Grand Master

Jon Snow

Posted
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, frankw said:

Looking through this list there are multiple better options available.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/quarterback/?ref=trending-pages

Better is a matter of perspective.  It doesn't bother me who the backup or temporary starter is. I didn't care for signing Sam in the first place because USC qbs suck. But I'm not bothered by the idea if he stays on for another season like others here. It is what it is.

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panthers55 Grand Master

panthers55

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, frankw said:

Wins eh? Remind me how he looked without a huge showing from his run game and when he had to pass the ball? He was outperformed in the final game of the season by Andy Dalton. And please don't give me any of this nonsense about how the game didn't matter.

In the games we ran for less than 100 yards he actually did well outside of New Orleans. And yes that counts the least. The team had nothing to.play for and who exactly played well. So while it counts it is an outlier and not as telling as when we were making a run to the playoffs. 

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Barney Community Regular

Barney

Posted
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Why add the one game against the Saints once everything was decided. That wasn't a crucial game.  The games that counted were his first five. Go back and recalculate your math. In 4 of those 5 his rating was over 100 and combined it was  105. 

you picked the one game against the steelers to get your 108 rating.  

how about this then:

 

When leading 17+ 143.8

Leading 9-16 143.5

Leading 1-8 82.7

Tied 70.3

Trailing 1-8 65.2

Trailing 9-16 90.1 And most of this was probably against prevent defense.  

When things are tight he does not show up.  I think Sam could be a great back up, I just don't think he is consistent enough to bring it week in and week out. Just my opinion.  We may end up finding out though.  

 

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frankw Grand Master

frankw

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

Better is a matter of perspective.  It doesn't bother me who the backup or temporary starter is. I didn't care for signing Sam in the first place because USC qbs suck. But I'm not bothered by the idea if he stays on for another season like others here. It is what it is.

That's true but in this case it's a matter of trying something different. With the arguments in favor of him being applied here why not consider PJ Walker too? Better is a matter of perspective 😉

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panthers55 Grand Master

panthers55

Posted
Posted
49 minutes ago, Barney said:

you picked the one game against the steelers to get your 108 rating.  

how about this then:

 

When leading 17+ 143.8

Leading 9-16 143.5

Leading 1-8 82.7

Tied 70.3

Trailing 1-8 65.2

Trailing 9-16 90.1 And most of this was probably against prevent defense.  

When things are tight he does not show up.  I think Sam could be a great back up, I just don't think he is consistent enough to bring it week in and week out. Just my opinion.  We may end up finding out though.  

 

Your analysis is very limited unless you compare how many times it occurred. Since we went 4-2 and we were either leading in most games or getting blown out how many times were we up by 10 or tied or behind by 10. And if we were tied was it for 1 drive or a quarter. The idea of situational stats are useful if you have a big enough N to make it meaningful. Using 6 games is too few to make meaningful comparisons about specific situations which may have occurred once or twice. Better to.look at trends and big picture to avoid putting too much meaning into each specific event unless it is very significant. And if you are using 2021 or older then it was a different situation. 

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panthers55 Grand Master

panthers55

Posted
Posted
56 minutes ago, frankw said:

That's true but in this case it's a matter of trying something different. With the arguments in favor of him being applied here why not consider PJ Walker too? Better is a matter of perspective 😉

You don't try something different just to do it differently. It has to be different and better.   And I am sure we are considering  lots of options including PJ

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Barney Community Regular

Barney

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Posted
8 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Your analysis is very limited unless you compare how many times it occurred. Since we went 4-2 and we were either leading in most games or getting blown out how many times were we up by 10 or tied or behind by 10. And if we were tied was it for 1 drive or a quarter. The idea of situational stats are useful if you have a big enough N to make it meaningful. Using 6 games is too few to make meaningful comparisons about specific situations which may have occurred once or twice. Better to.look at trends and big picture to avoid putting too much meaning into each specific event unless it is very significant. And if you are using 2021 or older then it was a different situation. 

I think you are using 6 games to say he is a different player, but I am not allowed to use the same 6 games to say I don't think he is.  I understand what you are saying about him getting the short end of the stick on coaches and I agree, but I really see things in him that are not indicative of QB capable of putting together the consistency you need to win over a full season.   We can throw stats around all day, you can find many to support your thoughts and I can do likewise.  My eyes tell me a different story than yours.  At the end of the day, we can just disagree and if he does start, for the record,  I really hope I have to come back here and eat crow.  I will gladly take a crow buffet at that point.  

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Jon Snow Grand Master

Jon Snow

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, frankw said:

That's true but in this case it's a matter of trying something different. With the arguments in favor of him being applied here why not consider PJ Walker too? Better is a matter of perspective 😉

You are asking the wrong guy. But to be fair they are still trying something different even if it's with the same players. So there's that. 

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panthers55 Grand Master

panthers55

Posted
Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Barney said:

I think you are using 6 games to say he is a different player, but I am not allowed to use the same 6 games to say I don't think he is.  I understand what you are saying about him getting the short end of the stick on coaches and I agree, but I really see things in him that are not indicative of QB capable of putting together the consistency you need to win over a full season.   We can throw stats around all day, you can find many to support your thoughts and I can do likewise.  My eyes tell me a different story than yours.  At the end of the day, we can just disagree and if he does start, for the record,  I really hope I have to come back here and eat crow.  I will gladly take a crow buffet at that point.  

 Not at all. He is the same player he has always been but with decent coaching and a good line his results were pretty good. The point is that while he isn't going to carry a team on his back  he can be decent to good with support. What you did was break those six games into small segments and tried to draw conclusions from very limited data while I used composite score for the most part to show overall improvement.  My response to the Pittsburgh game was in response to a specific complaint that  he didn't do well when teams blitzed or used pressure. Pittsburgh was the most obvious game where pressure was applied and they took away the run game to make him pass. And his rating was 108.

And like you see bad indicators I see improvement in areas like better timing and not rushing his steps, getting the ball out quicker, better movement in the pocket,  doing a better job of reading defenses and adjusting to blitzes and pressure. These are the things that coaching impacts and he is clearly coachable and able to make adjustments based on practice. Those are the things I see which give me hope he can continue to.improve since the coaching has taken a big upturn.

Edited by panthers55
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falconlynx Veteran

falconlynx

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, panthers55 said:

Why add the one game against the Saints once everything was decided. That wasn't a crucial game.  The games that counted were his first five. Go back and recalculate your math. In 4 of those 5 his rating was over 100 and combined it was  105. 

Offensive line was god awful that saints game too. Interior pressure as soon as the ball was snapped, especially once Corbett went down. 

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