Panthers have made an offer...

[pantherclaw]

5 hours ago, KSpan said:

It is entirely possible to discuss a player's perceived value relative to makret without automatically leaping to the conclusion that someone is also condoning "having zero pass rush". The stupid that needs to be fixed in this thread, ones like it, and in a lot of discussions outside of here isn't what you seem to think it is.

The thing about perceived value, is its different from one person to the next. 

No matter how you perceive his value, he is an elite pass rusher. Which means in the NFL economics, he will get paid an elite contract, and deservingly so. 

The only perceived value that matters, is the decision makers of the Caroliba Panthers.

Disagree with it all you want. Talk about his perceived value in your eyes all you want to. It is the price of playing in the NFL. 

 

 

Edited July 17, 2023 by pantherclaw

[pantherclaw]

Contracts have been out of hand since before this century. That's why I don't get caught up in "perceived value."

Many teams are willing to pay whatever it takes to have his talent,  and unquestioned leadership on their team. 

Edited July 17, 2023 by pantherclaw

[Gerry Green]

7 minutes ago, pantherclaw said:

Contracts have been out of hand since before this century. That's why I don't get caught up in "perceived value."

Many teams are willing to pay whatever it takes to have his talent,  and unquestioned leadership on their team. 

 

And no one undervalues Panther players value more than actual Panther fans. They don't seem to trust their own eyes, so they listen to outside noises to help shape their perceptions. It's just seems like it's easier to listen than to think.

Edited July 17, 2023 by Gerry Green

[pantherclaw]

25 minutes ago, Gerry Green said:

 

And no one undervalues Panther players value more than actual Panther fans. They don't seem to trust their own eyes, so they listen to outside noises to help shape their perceptions. It's just seems like it's easier to listen than to think.

I was raised to value perceptions other than my own.  Not to take as the gospel,  but at least listen to it, and add what is needed to.my own perception.   It's important to be unbiased.  

For example,  I am biased against Fords. Yet I can still acknowledge the fact of how good the mustang is as an overall 2 door American sports car.  I see recognize its value, and impact in the auto industry.  Still wouldn't buy one. 

Edited July 17, 2023 by pantherclaw

[Gerry Green]

3 minutes ago, pantherclaw said:

I was raised to value perceptions other than my own.  Not to take as the gospel,  but at least listen to it, and add what is needed to.my own perception.   It's important to be unbiased.  

For example,  I am biased against Fords. Yet I can still acknowledge the fact of how good the mustang is as an overall 2 door American sports car.  I see recognize its value, and impact in the auto industry.  Still wouldn't buy one. 

 

Hey now. I've owned 4 Mustangs. Currently driving a 2001 convertible I found in the back of the wife's grandfather's barn. Took me 2 years to get it together. Maybe that's why it's my all-time fav.

[SCO96]

2 hours ago, Gerry Green said:

Again. I am saying Burns isn’t worth 25 million per year or a 100 plus million dollar contract. 
I never said we shouldn’t try to sign him and take advantage of our rookie QB contract. I just wish we could get him cheaper. I would be fine with 15-18 million per. But 25 million is elite. Which I don’t think he is yet. 
I hope it works out and the Burns finally reached that point. 

 

2 hours ago, Gerry Green said:

So I guess the question becomes; Are there any players you would pay? Because if you don't want to pay 'Burns, there can't be many players you would want to pay.

 

Then if you don't pay Burns it sends a message that the Panthers won't pay their own. Then it starts getting messy.

 

Buying FA every year is expensive and makes it dang near impossible to build chemistry. 

The die has been cast, so there is no going back. But, situations like this is why its obvious that the NFL salary structure ridiculous. Non QB players taken in the draft can go from making 4-5 million per year, or less, to 4-5 times that amount on a 2nd deal. It's great for the player, but when you have 52 other active roster players tough decisions have to be made.

I can see why some would be hesitant to pay Burns. I also realize that talented pass rushers don't grow on trees. If they did everyone would have one. You just can't let a guy responsible for 1/3 of your sacks walk away without a sure thing on the roster to take his place...especially when he's only 25 and hasn't even hit reached his prime.

I say pay the man. Build a solid team around Bryce and try to reach the SB by 2025. At the same time, you need to start making roster moves to have a young pass rusher (two pass rushers ideally ) in place on their rookie deals when it's time to pay Bryce the big money in 2026. Burn would be coming to the end of his 2nd deal and you could possibly be in a position let him walk if his future salary is too high for the cap.

[Pup McBarky]

NVM

Edited July 17, 2023 by Pup McBarky

[razorwolf]

3 hours ago, TLGPanthersFan said:

Again. I am saying Burns isn’t worth 25 million per year or a 100 plus million dollar contract. 
I never said we shouldn’t try to sign him and take advantage of our rookie QB contract. I just wish we could get him cheaper. I would be fine with 15-18 million per. But 25 million is elite. Which I don’t think he is yet. 
I hope it works out and the Burns finally reached that point. 

I don’t believe there is any way he signs for less than $22M/avg yr. My $24.5M (salary, guaranteed, signing bonus, and etc) figure is what will be the average/yr when you take total contract ($)/yr!

[TLGPanthersFan]

Just now, razorwolf said:

I don’t believe there is any way he signs for less than $22M/avg yr. My $24.5M (salary, guaranteed, signing bonus, and etc) figure is what will be the average/yr when you take total contract ($)/yr!

(Sigh) I am just not excited about this at all. But as some people have said we have no other choice. 

[SCO96]

The 4 hardest positions to fill with "elite talent" (via draft, FA, or trade) are QB, Pass rushing DE, LT, and CB. Those positions are going to almost always command the highest salaries on a competitive football team. If your roster is set at those positions and your team had an above "average O-line" , the franchise should be in the playoff hunt year in and year out. If you have "good players, if not great players" at the other positions you probably going to be a SB contender.

[top dawg]

On 7/16/2023 at 11:26 AM, mrcompletely11 said:

The execs are just playing the game.   One would be an absolute moron if you think burns and bosa are comparable players.  Not even in the same stratosphere.    Burns is good.  He is going to get paid as if he is great.  Let’s hope he elevates his game.    But saying burns is as good as bosa and actually believing it is laughable at best.  

The Bosa talk is just talk. People use Bosa because he is the best (and the fact that both were drafted in 2019). Figuring out where Burns falls in comparison is the trick. I'd say it's it's 8th, as commensurate with his production, but we're going to have to adjust for his age and the still mouthwatering pie in the sky (i.e. his potential), and the lack of proven talent. Mind you, I'm personally skeptical of basing decisions on pie in the sky...I'd probably offer him 6th or 7th and hold the line at 5th best contract in the league, and hope like hell that his game takes that leap. We're between a rock and a hard place. 

Too bad the Rams didn't have a 2023 first. I think that would've gotten that deal done.

Edited July 18, 2023 by top dawg

[razorwolf]

5 hours ago, top dawg said:

The Bosa talk is just talk. People use Bosa because he is the best (and the fact that both were drafted in 2019). Figuring out where Burns falls in comparison is the trick. I'd say it's it's 8th, as commensurate with his production, but we're going to have to adjust for his age and the still mouthwatering pie in the sky (i.e. his potential), and the lack of proven talent. Mind you, I'm personally skeptical of basing decisions on pie in the sky...I'd probably offer him 6th or 7th and hold the line at 5th best contract in the league, and hope like hell that his game takes that leap. We're between a rock and a hard place. 

Too bad the Rams didn't have a 2023 first. I think that would've gotten that deal done.

It has been said by analyst that Burns is the #7 to #12 best ranked player at his position. So I just believe he’s going to want to be paid in the range of his rank!

[Pup McBarky]

55 minutes ago, razorwolf said:

It has been said by analyst that Burns is the #7 to #12 best ranked player at his position. So I just believe he’s going to want to be paid in the range of his rank!

I'll be happy if he signs for less than $25 million/season. I'd much rather he be signed for closer to $20 million. I suspect his agent will hold out for about $27 million...or more, depending on the Bosa contract.

[trucpfan]

 If he signs a deal higher then expected I hope its somewhat based off incentives for the extra let's say 20 but could be up to 28 a year with the goals being all pro and sack numbers could be a win win for both sides.