If you're looking for an argument...

[ForJimmy]

Just now, SmokinwithWilly said:

The weird thing is, from what I remember prior to the draft, is Young wasn't the "consensus" until the S2 came out, not like Manning, Luck or Lawrence. There was always talk that all 3 of them, and even possibly Levis were in play at 1. Then the S2 and Purdy's results and what he's done in SF suddenly brought the value of that test to light as the leading metric to determine a QBs future success in the NFL, then everyone else fell to the wayside. Without the hype of the S2, I think we could be having a much different discussion. 

He wasn't like Manning, Luck, or Lawrence as a generational type prospect.  Every one of these QBs were quoted as having weaknesses.  However he was regarded as the best of the bunch.  They always stated if he grew 2 inches he would be on Luck's level as a generational QB.  You will see boards that have players like Will Anderson over him, but he was still normally the first QB on the board.  The S2 just made them love him even more.  I mean Richardson did much better than Stroud on the S2, but most still have Stroud as a close 2nd to Young.  I remember this because it's what made me ok with drafting Young when I wanted Stroud. It gets blurry because Vegas thought we were drafting Stroud because of his size and Reich's style of QBs.  Stroud was typically right there behind him in the rankings.

[jayboogieman]

Young was the number 1 QB on most boards/mocks/Vegas/etc during the college season and all the way up to OSU's pro day despite Young not throwing at the combine. Him not throwing at the combine caused a lot of discussion for those that can't remember that far back. Vegas and most boards/mocks changed to Stroud after the pictures of McCown and Reich being happy surfaced for a few days. Then Vegas and the mocks/boards went back to Young.

[WUnderhill]

2 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I gave y'all a positive thread because the poll of people wanted it. I deleted a poo ton of posts out of that thread, gave temporary bans for posts on that thread, and gave a very legitimate effort to create a place for people who wanted to post positive takes without encountering what they interpreted as toxicity to have a place to go. And you want to lock me for it? Okay, but that's on you though. That says more about you than it does me. 

If you don't believe me I don't care. But that's the god's honest truth.

You know exactly what I’m talking about. Answered. Taking that “I didn’t create a thread titled “Safe Space” just because people pooed my snarky post” story to the grave. Sad.

[ForJimmy]

Just now, jayboogieman said:

Young was the number 1 QB on most boards/mocks/Vegas/etc during the college season and all the way up to OSU's pro day despite Young not throwing at the combine. Him not throwing at the combine caused a lot of discussion for those that can't remember that far back. Vegas and most boards/mocks changed to Stroud after the pictures of McCown and Reich being happy surfaced for a few days. Then Vegas and the mocks/boards went back to Young.

Exactly.  It's just history we can't change it because he disagree with it.  I remember Stroud jumping up some after his Pro Day (it was a thing of beauty) and then Young jumped up after his Pro Day (he was doing a lot of throwing off the run showing off his elasticity).  McCown plus Reich's typical tall QBs had Stroud linked to us at 1 for a while but most people had Young ranked higher (and it wasn't some big gap, they were very close).  Put it this way no one would have been shocked if we took Stroud and no one was shocked we took Young.  

[SmokinwithWilly]

2 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

He wasn't like Manning, Luck, or Lawrence as a generational type prospect.  Every one of these QBs were quoted as having weaknesses.  However he was regarded as the best of the bunch.  They always stated if he grew 2 inches he would be on Luck's level as a generational QB.  You will see boards that have players like Will Anderson over him, but he was still normally the first QB on the board.  The S2 just made them love him even more.  I mean Richardson did much better than Stroud on the S2, but most still have Stroud as a close 2nd to Young.  I remember this because it's what made me ok with drafting Young when I wanted Stroud. It gets blurry because Vegas thought we were drafting Stroud because of his size and Reich's style of QBs.  Stroud was typically right there behind him in the rankings.

To me, the term "consensus" would imply that regardless of the coach or system, that's going to be the pick. Stroud or AR fit Reich's system better than Young which would mean that could be the pick for that reason alone. To me that's not really a "consensus." I know what the term means, it's just in this case, I don't think it necessarily applies like it is being portrayed as a Manning, Luck or Lawrence type prospect. 

[LinvilleGorge]

3 minutes ago, WUnderhill said:

You know exactly what I’m talking about. Answered. Taking that “I didn’t create a thread titled “Safe Space” just because people pooed my snarky post” story to the grave. Sad.

Like I said, this is on you. It was an honest offer. How do I prove that? Because I held up my end of the bargain. 

[ForJimmy]

1 minute ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

To me, the term "consensus" would imply that regardless of the coach or system, that's going to be the pick. Stroud or AR fit Reich's system better than Young which would mean that could be the pick for that reason alone. To me that's not really a "consensus." I know what the term means, it's just in this case, I don't think it necessarily applies like it is being portrayed as a Manning, Luck or Lawrence type prospect. 

They were close no doubt.  Some had them as 1A and 1B.  However to your point we did draft Young despite Stroud being the better fit and most people gave us a good grade for it.  No one was surprised or shocked, and a lot thought it was the right pick.  

[SmokinwithWilly]

3 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

They were close no doubt.  Some had them as 1A and 1B.  However to your point we did draft Young despite Stroud being the better fit and most people gave us a good grade for it.  No one was surprised or shocked, and a lot thought it was the right pick.  

Which brings us back full circle to the question, how much did Tepper influence the pick? I doubt we'll ever truly know but having to even ask that question in light of Nicole being involved in a day 2 trade makes you question everything that's going on inside this organization. 

[ForJimmy]

3 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

Which brings us back full circle to the question, how much did Tepper influence the pick? I doubt we'll ever truly know but having to even ask that question in light of Nicole being involved in a day 2 trade makes you question everything that's going on inside this organization. 

I have no idea. I think Tepper is definitely over eager for a QB. Teddy, Sam, Baker, wanted Fields, wanted Watson, rushed this trade up which all add up to why our roster is so bare right now. I’m actually for slowing down and trying to build a team around Young. It gives Young a more adequate evaluation and if he continues to struggle we should have a better roster to plug our new QB in. 

[jayboogieman]

21 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

Exactly.  It's just history we can't change it because he disagree with it.  I remember Stroud jumping up some after his Pro Day (it was a thing of beauty) and then Young jumped up after his Pro Day (he was doing a lot of throwing off the run showing off his elasticity).  McCown plus Reich's typical tall QBs had Stroud linked to us at 1 for a while but most people had Young ranked higher (and it wasn't some big gap, they were very close).  Put it this way no one would have been shocked if we took Stroud and no one was shocked we took Young.  

That's also about the time I started posting this so much,

and saying he is who the size bros should truly want

[LinvilleGorge]

18 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

Which brings us back full circle to the question, how much did Tepper influence the pick? I doubt we'll ever truly know but having to even ask that question in light of Nicole being involved in a day 2 trade makes you question everything that's going on inside this organization. 

I really doubt we'll ever know for sure but there sure has been a lot of smoke that Tepper at minimum heavily influenced the pick for there not to be some fire there.

His presser was weird. This whole flex that he had veto power, he could've overridden the football folks but he didn't need to because there was consensus, actually there was unanimity. Was there really though? Or were their folks who just saw the writing on the wall and wanted to continue to cash Tepper's checks? Who knows? I honestly doubt we'll ever really know unless someone from within the organization eventually airs the dirty laundry and even then will we REALLY know or does this guy just an ax to grind?

[pantherclaw]

Anybody that wants to claim they can make an assessment of Bryce Young, behind this oline, and without receivers that can consistently take the top off defenses and be a real threat....

 

Well, just turn in your fan card. 

Seriously.   

 

[LinvilleGorge]

I assess that he looks terrible. His feet are all over the place so he's not ready to throw and ends up late even when he sees it.

Yes, the offense around him is broken. But simply evaluating his play by itself, it's not good. At all.

Will a better system and surrounding talent help him? We all hope so, but man he looks really damn bad.

[Mr. Scot]

4 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Yeah, Bob and Tom's mock draft is very relevant in determining expert consensus. A lot of mock drafts are "consensus" because they just copy each other. 

Bob and Tom have a mock draft?