The Final Drive

[woahfraze]

For me what it really comes down to is can Bryce get more consistently comfortable in the pocket. If he can do that, I think he’ll be OK. Probably not an elite guy. And certainly not worth what we gave up for him. But a perfectly fine QB.

On the last drive, he hung in the pocket and found the open man. I think a lot of his trouble has been poor footwork beyond his “normal” tip toe hopping where he hasn’t trusted the protection (often rightly so, sometimes not). When his feet aren’t ready to throw, he’s either late on pulling the trigger on the right read or he can’t get enough my zip on the ball.  
 

If he can clean all that up in the offseason, maybe we have a chance in a bad NFC South in 2024. 

[KSpan]

Y'all are really grasping at anything at this point. That was not a "#1 overall pick" drive. Good? Certainly. But Bryce made terrible short and slow throws and got bailed out a couple of times. 

You want to see a game-winning, game-changing QB performance on a late-game drive? Go check out Flacco's TD pass to Amari Cooper today.

[TLGPanthersFan]

Just now, KSpan said:

Y'all are really grasping at anything at this point. That was not a "#1 overall pick" drive. Good? Certainly. But Bryce made terrible short and slow throws and got bailed out a couple of times. 

You want to see a game-winning, game-changing QB performance on a late-game drive? Go check out Flacco's TD pass to Amari Cooper today.

Do you enjoy being miserable? Because it seems like you do. 

[Seltzer]

11 minutes ago, Davidson Deac II said:

Bryce does have some positives this year.  Couple of game winning drives, and his passes in the mid range (15-30 yards) are mostly good.  Also, he has decent mobility and hasn't thrown a lot of picks.  Only 1 in the last four games, I think.  But we still have a lot of questions about whether he will eventually be a NFL qb.  

See, this is the kind of debate/criticism I can get behind 100%.  These are legitimate questions, and they haven't yet been answered.

And trading up was a mistake- there is no question in retrospect.  

But the absolute nonsense emanating from so many people on this board has been embarrassing.

Bryce is going to be here starting next year.  I support this team, so I want to see him improve and to succeed.  And maybe I'm just older than some of these people or coached too long, but damn some of these takes are so divorced from reality (and still celebrated as the only acceptable groupthink in here) it's just hard to take.

Good game (in terms of we got the win) and elite final drive.  Hoping to see a better offensive performance next week.

Edited December 17, 2023 by Seltzer

[PappyMay]

I know we aren’t a good team but I’m not ready to give up on Bryce yet. I don’t see why he can’t pan out to be a good game manager. Let’s get this man a speed WR and good guard to sure up the pocket(I’m not sure how Corbett will ever be) half our losses have been 1 possession game. I’m hoping for 7-10 next season and building towards the future. 

[Seltzer]

2 minutes ago, PappyMay said:

I know we aren’t a good team but I’m not ready to give up on Bryce yet. I don’t see why he can’t pan out to be a good game manager. Let’s get this man a speed WR and good guard to sure up the pocket(I’m not sure how Corbett will ever be) half our losses have been 1 possession game. I’m hoping for 7-10 next season and building towards the future. 

Tua is a game manager.  Purdy is a game manager.  You think any of that matters to those fans if they win a SB.

Most QB's are game managers.  That's really the bulk of their responsibilities.

I'll take a game manager that can manager a drive like that final one 17/17 games.

[frankw]

Win is a win. He did enough to win. 9 points are 9 points though. There were similar posts like this made after the Texans game and then Bryce and the offense proceeded to freefall. I have zero expectations for the rest of the season. Next season is when I expect big things regardless of coaching personnel or any other circumstance. I will not be lowering the bar any further than it already has but that's my own personal opinion.

Edited December 17, 2023 by frankw

[KSpan]

6 minutes ago, TLGPanthersFan said:

Do you enjoy being miserable? Because it seems like you do. 

Who is miserable? I just don't get caught up in rose-colored nonsense like this, and being as apathetic about the team as Tepper has made many makes it quite easy to objectively evaluate what we're seeing without any emotional impact. Carolina was lucky that Atlanta didn't care to win today and that Ridder went completely braindead.

Edited December 17, 2023 by KSpan

[Seltzer]

3 minutes ago, frankw said:

Win is a win. He did enough to win. 9 points are 9 points though. There were similar posts like this made after the Texans game and then Bryce and the offense proceeded to freefall. I have zero expectations for the rest of the season. Next season is when I expect big things regardless of coaching personnel or any other circumstance. I will not be lowering the bar any further than it already has but that's my own personal opinion.

Totally fair statement.

Both game winning drives have been incredible, but unfortunately, there really hasn't been much on offense outside of that to be excited about.  And pretty much every single person on offense has had more than their fair share of screw-ups (I'm inclined to give Hubbard and maybe Moton a pass).

However, a rookie QB making mistakes is somewhat expected.  A rookie QB dealing with historic levels of dysfunction should cause you to expect more.

What's disappointing is that Bryce has made so many plays this year where guys who shouldn't be making these types of mistakes are making them repeatedly.

That objectively has made it almost impossible to fairly evaluate (let alone support) his development.

We need to get everything right going into next season so we can make the proper evaluation we should have been able to make this year.

I know that isn't hot-takeish enough for some people, but it's true.

And you're right about next week... I certainly hope we can carry some momentum, but there's no evidence in this season to believe that.

[Seltzer]

8 minutes ago, KSpan said:

Who is miserable? I just don't get caught up in rose-colored nonsense like this, and being as apathetic about the team as Tepper has made many makes it quite easy to objectively evaluate what we're seeing without any emotional impact. Carolina was lucky that Atlanta didn't care to win today and that Ridder went completely braindead.

True statements about your evaluations in terms of where the team and franchise is at overall.  All I was saying in any of this was that Bryce had an amazing final drive.  I'm happy about that, b/c 1)It would have been amazing for prime Tom Brady to lead that drive, let along maligned rookie Bryce and 2) I still want to avoid the #1 pick if at all possible

If this was any other QB besides a rookie that a substantial amount of our fanbase wants to crucify, there would be no objections to how amazing that was, especially in the worst conditions I've ever seen at BOA (and I've been to most bad weather games over the past 15 years).

There's nothing more than that to what I'm saying.  And Tepper deserves every ounce of criticism thrown his way.  He is the puppet master that has overseen this tragedy.

I've just seen so many fans direct their anger at anyone else but Tepper over the past 6 years.  And literally none of them have deserved it.  Neither does Bryce- he deserves plenty of criticism, but not this incandescent hate that he hasn't magically saved the bad decision this franchise has made for 6 seasons and counting.

[SOJA]

1 hour ago, Seltzer said:

That was the work of a franchise QB and a guy worthy of a #1 pick.  Incredible drive for any QB, let alone a maligned, rookie QB backed up against the wind and in the worst weather conditions imaginable against a talented Falcons secondary.

Unlike the litany of people on this board who want so badly to crucify this kid & ignore the almost comical level of dysfunction he has had to deal with this year, I'm not crowning him by any means.

It is still 100% valid & fair to say it was a mistake to trade up for Bryce.  I will never argue against that; I just vehemently disagree with the assertion that any other QB would have been justified for us trading up for given how unbelievably inept everything else has been this year.

We are stuck with Bryce for at least next year, and I'm neither a masochist nor a Bryce hater, so I am incredibly excited by this drive.

5/5 for 68 yards is objectively good for any drive, and almost impossible in the weather conditions out there.

Hope he can continue to build on this in hopefully better weather next week.

Agreed. He went out and won us that game. 

Has this year been terrible? beyond my worst imagination. 

Is it way too early to judge Bryce and is there at least hope for the future? Of course. 

My biggest concern is not with Bryce moving forward it's that Tepper will not allow whoever he hires to just do their own job without him meddling. 

[SOJA]

27 minutes ago, woahfraze said:

For me what it really comes down to is can Bryce get more consistently comfortable in the pocket. If he can do that, I think he’ll be OK. Probably not an elite guy. And certainly not worth what we gave up for him. But a perfectly fine QB.

On the last drive, he hung in the pocket and found the open man. I think a lot of his trouble has been poor footwork beyond his “normal” tip toe hopping where he hasn’t trusted the protection (often rightly so, sometimes not). When his feet aren’t ready to throw, he’s either late on pulling the trigger on the right read or he can’t get enough my zip on the ball.  
 

If he can clean all that up in the offseason, maybe we have a chance in a bad NFC South in 2024. 

This is a fair criticism but I really see that as his floor and this is coming from someone who really wanted CJ predraft. I think this year has been such a clusterfug in terms of personal, coaching and locker room culture that it's impossible to judge bryce rn 

[jd12099]

I am keeping receipts on all the Bryce haters in prior threads. Keep proving the haters wrong Bryce!!!

[KSpan]

6 minutes ago, Seltzer said:

True statements about your evaluations in terms of where the team and franchise is at overall.  All I was saying in any of this was that Bryce had an amazing final drive.  I'm happy about that, b/c 1)It would have been amazing for prime Tom Brady to lead that drive, let along maligned rookie Bryce and 2) I still want to avoid the #1 pick if at all possible

If this was any other QB besides a rookie that a substantial amount of our fanbase wants to crucify, there would be no objections to how amazing that was, especially in the worst conditions I've ever seen at BOA (and I've been to most bad weather games over the past 15 years).

There's nothing more than that to what I'm saying.  And Tepper deserves every ounce of criticism thrown his way.  He is the puppet master that has overseen this tragedy.

I've just seen so many fans direct their anger at anyone else but Tepper over the past 6 years.  And literally none of them have deserved it.  Neither does Bryce- he deserves plenty of criticism, but not this incandescent hate that he hasn't magically saved the bad decision this franchise has made for 6 seasons and counting.

And I disagree that it was an amazing drive. It wasn't. Those were mostly throws to wide open receivers and he still struggled to make them, with his arm weakness turning what should be gimmes into situations where a defender darn near closed the gap (e.g. the Tremble throw). It worked out, but it was neither pretty nor special. We have just been so starved of WB play, and Bryce has been so awful and the cost to get him so high, that the bar is set real low.