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Carolina Definitely Chose the Wrong QB

Calboyz13

By Calboyz13,
in Carolina Panthers

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strato Grand Master

strato

Posted
Posted
39 minutes ago, GhostOfDocAnderson said:

Right now Bryce doesn't just have bad footwork. He has no footwork to speak of. He's the equivalent of a rookie NBA point guard who hasn't been trained to dribble or pass. If you want to see what bad but fixable footwork looks like, look no further than rookie Aaron Rodgers. It took him three years on the bench to fix his footwork and his throwing mechanics. Three years. How long will it take to teach Bryce proper footwork and throwing mechanics? Nobody knows, but it'd make an interesting case study and a cautionary tale.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5U23QDOcBXI

 

That is why guys like him don’t go up top. I don’t know what was in peoples’ brains. Alleged professionals. 

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strato Grand Master

strato

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Posted
3 hours ago, Davidson Deac II said:

You might be right.  Unfortunately, we didn't have the players to make that neutered offense remotely effective.  It might have been nice to have a running back or a wr that could easily turn a 5 yard catch into 15-20 (CMC or DJ) or a rb that could power for 4-5 ypc on average (Foreman).  But our most talented players from 2022 played for other teams this year.  

Well, the thing that made that a losing strategy (which Reich damn well knew) was the non stretching of the field, the ridiculous number of guys people were putting in the box, etc.

It makes it about impossible to play that dink game. 

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Davidson Deac II Grand Master

Davidson Deac II

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, strato said:

Well, the thing that made that a losing strategy (which Reich damn well knew) was the non stretching of the field, the ridiculous number of guys people were putting in the box, etc.

It makes it about impossible to play that dink game. 

Its not a good offense, no doubt.  But I have seen it work for other teams better than it did for us, especially if you have a power back or some guys who are more of a threat with YAC.  

But for us, it was probably the worst Panthers offense I have ever seen.  

Edited by Davidson Deac II
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GhostOfDocAnderson Enthusiast

GhostOfDocAnderson

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Ghostofdelhomme said:

 

 

What the bleep is that drop back technique where he slooooooowly walks backward with his hips parallel to the line? Has no coach in all the years he's been playing ever tried to teach him how to do a proper drop? How is the line suppose to block for him when he doesn't hurry backward and set the point? How does he keep time on timing throws? I mean what the bleep am I watching? 

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frankw Grand Master

frankw

Posted
Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Jay Roosevelt said:

Everyone talks about the S2 score. I barely remember that being brought up before the draft. I must have not been paying attention.

Safe to say you weren't paying attention.

CJ Stroud himself had to come out and say he's a football player not a test taker. Well. The young man certainly proved himself there.

Edited by frankw
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electro's horse Grand Master

electro's horse

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Ghostofdelhomme said:

 

i love these videos where someone puts together everything they think should have been a catch, ignoring that half of these are terribly placed balls. Just because a WR has a ball hit their hands doesn't mean it's an easy catch. 

And so what? Give him every "dropped" TD and every dropped yard. He was still terrible. 

And this is to say nothing about dropped interceptions, or his league leading 11 fumbles that he was mostly lucky with. I'd make a video of those, but I don't have enough time and youtube won't let you upload videos that long. 

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Montsta Rising Star

Montsta

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Posted
On 1/13/2024 at 4:24 PM, Panthercougar68 said:

I remember when the argument this was a bad year to chose a QB…that was a thing here. CJ has been great but damn revisionist here.

We chose correctly in 2011. 2023 we chose very poorly. It’s a coin flip in the NFL and poo happens. 

IMG_5401.jpeg

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Ghostofdelhomme Rising Star

Ghostofdelhomme

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, GhostOfDocAnderson said:

 

What the bleep is that drop back technique where he slooooooowly walks backward with his hips parallel to the line? Has no coach in all the years he's been playing ever tried to teach him how to do a proper drop? How is the line suppose to block for him when he doesn't hurry backward and set the point? How does he keep time on timing throws? I mean what the bleep am I watching? 

This forum was the first to notice his unorthodox mechanics. All the scouts and coaches missed his noodle arm and cerebal palsy dropbacks

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    • CPantherKing
      So, just what is it that makes a QB "elite"?

      By CPantherKing · Posted

      I've explained this in more detail before. Briefly, there's a process to quickly evaluate a QB. Also, there's a type of QB that excels at a higher rate than others at the pro level. After that, it's about keeping the QBs flowing through the system. 1st round QBs are not superior, they just get more reps and game time. You can find just as many competitive QBs that are 3rd day or undrafted if you give them the same reps and game time. Now, to dive deeper for fun. To understand this further, there are rare 1st round QB exceptions, but they must come with a pro pedigree and proven success in college. There's only 1 to 3 of these QBs every decade (John Elway 1983, Peyton Manning 1998, Eli Manning 2004, Andrew Luck 2012, Jared Goff 2016, Patrick Mahomes 2017, and Joe Burrow 2020. That's 1 of every 20 1st round QBs (5% of historical 1st round QBs in modern draft era). When you look at 1st rd QB success, eliminate these rare ones from your samples because they are trained to be championship QBs. 100% of them have taken their team to a championship. Also, the Bill Walsh tree knows the formula for building an offense and finding a QB QUICKLY. The question is why haven't others figured it out & continue to waste draft capital on QBs? Based on my QB evaluation system, here's the QBs I had slotted for the Panthers over the past 10 drafts. Patrick Mahomes, Brad Kaaya, Cooper Rush, Lamar Jackson, Brett Rypien, Tyler Huntley, Jalen Hurts, Shane Buechele, Desmond Ridder, Brock Purdy, Aqeel Glass, Jack Coan, Aidan O'Connell, Tanner McKee, Spencer Rattler, Devin Leary, Sam Hartman, Quinn Ewers. The ones in bold were the ones that rated the highest for pro championship qualities (probable franchise QBs). Obviously,  we didn't need them all, but it's about flow of pro championship qualities shown in college and not the most physically gifted. Also, there are a few QBs every decade who have the qualities, but never get a chance. If you're talent evaluation/QB system is good enough, you can go get 2 to 3 of them tomorrow to show what they can do when their name is called. I expect 1 of every 6 QBs to be worthy of being a franchise QB. There's strict rules to the depth chart qualifications, rotation, minimum KPIs and cuts/trades for me. Panthers have had Collins, Beuerlein, Weinke, Delhomme, Clausen, Newton, Bridgewater, Darnold, and Young. If you include Lewis, Peete, Allen and Mayfield, the Panthers have had 3 of 13 championship level franchise QBs. 1 of 5 (1 of 6 if you don't count Collins). It's the same for every franchise. The difference is a certain coaching tree knows how to move them through quicker than all the others while building defense with the most valuable draft picks. For Walsh, Montana(3rd rd) was his 3rd QB and Young(trade) was his 12th (9 yrs). He had a process allowing him to move through them rapidly. For Holmgren, Favre(trade) was his 4th QB and Hasselbeck(6th rd/trade) was his 15th QB (10 yrs). Neither of them settled on or tried to solve the problems of their 1st QB. For Andy Reid, McNabb(1st rd) was his 2nd QB and Mahomes(1st rd) was his 15th QB (19yrs). For John Harbaugh, Flacco(1st rd) was his 1st and Jackson(1st rd) was his 8th (11 yrs). For Sean McVay, Goff(1st rd) was his 1st and Stafford(trade) was his 5th (5yrs). Reid was the slow and stubborn one who wouldn't move on from his QB & had to wait nearly 2 decades to grab a QB that is the rare exception. I present this to show how 1st round picks are wasted on QBs, and it's the process fitting the QB to the system that generates success. Championship leader qualities and a process to move through QBs for a single coach's offense until you find a winner is the formula. The ages of these QBs from the Walsh tree when they won their first SB: Montana(25), Young(33), Favre(27), Mahomes(24), Flacco(27), and Stafford (33). Mahomes is the only sports pedigree QB exception on this list. QBs selected in the top 20 picks that weren't a pedigree QB were discarded by the team that drafted them. It will continue to be the same for the QB position as the dynamics of an offense from coach to field to team to clutch moments are not going to change. The combines/draft is just a media show that will only highlight the rare pedigree exceptions at QB for the NFL. You can line up ANY 12 QBs demonstrating success in college with the pro championship level qualities right now & you'll find a couple franchise QBs. Overrated arm strength & athleticism mean absolutely nothing for success at the pro level (that's a bonus). If they had enough of the tangibles to consistently succeed in college, it will translate to the pros. Currently, the Panthers are on QB #1 being shoved into Canales' system. Hooker is Canales' 4th QB (5th if you count Bryce Perkins). The Panthers only need to get Young out of the way and start giving these QBs a shot. If a GM can't fit a QB with the offensive coach in 6 QBs, then it's time to move to a new GM. For Canales' system, I'd go with Cooper Rush(trade), Tyler Huntley(available/ps), Desmond Ridder(available), Jack Coan(available), Aqeel Glass(available), Tanner McKee(trade), Sam Hartman(available/ps), Devin Leary(available), Hendon Hooker(on roster), Clayton Tune(available/ps), Chris Oladokun(available/ps), DJ Uiagalelei(available/ps) and Shane Buechele(available/ps). No particular order. This just demonstrates the winning process at QB to build a winning team. 7 of these QBs have been chosen by SB winning coaches. The point is to line them up and have one head coach with one offensive system move through them as quickly as possible until one of them holds on to the starting position with success and claims the franchise QB title. I expect the top 20 1st round picks for a franchise QB is the only way crowd to attack this and the Bill Walsh tree. Likely going to tell you that 6th round & later QBs as well as the Walsh tree are the sole outliers. We can count more 6th round and later championship QBs(13) than we can the 1st round pedigree QBs(7). As for the other 47 SB QBs, only 15 QBs have been drafted in the top 20 and led their first team to the SB. The best return is the pedigree 1st round QB, but this is rare. As for top 20 pick QBs that aren't pedigree, you're better off running 6th round and later QBs through the offensive system as quick as possible while spending that top 20 1st round pick on core defense or the rare dual threat skill position player. I don't expect the typical media driven fan to agree. I know SB winning coaches keep signing my college QB targets.
    • Jay Roosevelt
      MNF double header

      By Jay Roosevelt · Posted

      Best QB I've seen this year so far, with all due respect to Allen and Jackson.
    • PNW_PantherMan
      MNF double header

      By PNW_PantherMan · Posted

      What’s with the chargers run game?  They were good last year 
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