Officially Entering My Vote for WR Keon Coleman

[CRA]

1 minute ago, kungfoodude said:

I think we have seen that Mingo needs to be upgraded. We don't have the luxury of assuming anyone on our roster is going to pan out. Most will not.

yeah, Mingo seems to fall into the developmental window.  I don't think we should be inking him into occupying any role on this O.    He needs a lot of work before he become dependable.  You definitely don't want to not draft someone because of him. 

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, CRA said:

yeah, Mingo seems to fall into the developmental window.  I don't think we should be inking him into occupying any role on this O.    He needs a lot of work before he become dependable.  You definitely don't want to not draft someone because of him. 

We don't have that luxury. As it currently stands, it's unlikely you will see any current WR on our roster still in a Panthers uniform in a couple of seasons.

You go into this draft assuming none of these guys are part of our future. That goes well beyond WR. Almost every position on this team is the same. 

[CRA]

8 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

You also need polished WR's that get separation, run good routes ans make plays in space. Coleman doesn't tick all those boxes while some others that MAY be available might. It's BPA. If that Coleman at the time, by all means. But I don't want to see another classic Panthers reach on gamble in the 2nd or 3rd. Seen enough of those, thanks.

yeah, same people claiming I over value the 40 in this Coleman talk overlook at got Mitchell over Worthy too. 

and if you look at Coleman's draft evaluations.  What are his weakness.  They all come back to some variation of route running, separation, etc. at this next level.   Often in the praise section about him being able to body guys.   No one until recently was begging for what Coleman represents given the state of the Panthers.   We all have talked about how flawed the KB logic was for Cam.  IMO, this is more of the same.  We need speed.  And we might need quickness even more than that. 

 

[kungfoodude]

2 minutes ago, CRA said:

yeah, same people claiming I over value the 40 in this Coleman talk overlook at got Mitchell over Worthy too. 

and if you look at Coleman's draft evaluations.  What are his weakness.  They all come back to some variation of route running, separation, etc. at this next level.   Often in the praise section about him being able to body guys.   No one until recently was begging for what Coleman represents given the state of the Panthers.   We all have talked about how flawed the KB logic was for Cam.  IMO, this is more of the same.  We need speed. 

 

100%. I am not saying he might not pan out but he has a lot of very classic red flags for a WR in recent drafts.

I get it, the idea of a guy just plucking passes over the top of helpless DB's is great but this isn't college football. Almost all these guys are fast as fug, skilled as fug and can jump high as fug. 

Steve Smith didn't need to be that size to body people and jump over then. That is TRULY about the Dawg in you. I am not convinced I saw anything like that in Coleman.

[ForJimmy]

29 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Mingo was so bad that I'm honestly not factoring him into our draft plans. If he develops into something that's just an added bonus but I wouldn't plan on it.

A rookie WR in that shitty offense? Yeah I wouldn’t write that off yet. He was a 2nd/3rd on most boards. I’m curious to see how he does with a different staff. Plus we don’t have the luxury of writing him off yet. Waaaay too many holes to fill. 

[top dawg]

1 hour ago, Navy_football said:

Ladd McConkey running a sub 4.4 is all I needed to see. If he's still there at 33, you run that selection in, just in case somebody made a mistake. No replays. 

I love Ladd. First of all he's a Dawg like me, he plays every play, he's got a high football IQ, and, maybe most importantly, he's probably the best route runner in his class, but...it I probably would pick Mitchell first due to that size and speed. In a perfect world, I'd grab both.

Now I'm hearing that 6 QBs could go in the first (Chicago, Washington, New England, Minnesota, Las Vegas and Denver). If that's the case, then that will push other players down. Ladd or Adonai (though probably less so) could realistically be on the board at 33.

[ForJimmy]

21 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I think we have seen that Mingo needs to be upgraded. We don't have the luxury of assuming anyone on our roster is going to pan out. Most will not.

It’s nearly impossible to upgrade everyone in one year. These young players need some time with real coaching. Looking at our offense Sanders had his worst year, Chark did as well, so did Hurst, our OL regressed, and Young played well below expectations. I’m basically treating any offensive rookie last year like a rookie this year. AT and Chuba looked decent in that awful offense but everyone else was awful. 

[RumHam]

20 hours ago, CRA said:

He ran a 4.6 yesterday.  2nd worst time of all WRs.  That ain’t what we need IMO.   Not at 33.  Not with all the speed and good WRs in this draft 

it's a 40 time. this guy ran back kicks and blew past everyone while at FSU. He just has injury problems.

[CRA]

11 minutes ago, RumHam said:

it's a 40 time. this guy ran back kicks and blew past everyone while at FSU. He just has injury problems.

dude had 600 yards out of the ACC.... and he wasn't top WR in yards per reception.  

I'm only knocking him at 33 given who else is going to be likely available.  I'd say his main strength was contested catches at FSU.  I just think there are more explosive players. 

I just don't love either of the FSU guys this year.   I'd love a late flier on their QB though. 

 

[kungfoodude]

52 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

It’s nearly impossible to upgrade everyone in one year. These young players need some time with real coaching. Looking at our offense Sanders had his worst year, Chark did as well, so did Hurst, our OL regressed, and Young played well below expectations. I’m basically treating any offensive rookie last year like a rookie this year. AT and Chuba looked decent in that awful offense but everyone else was awful. 

I am guessing if things go about average(and historically we are far, far, far below average) in the upcoming drafts, it would take 6-10 years of solid drafting(not great just solid) to really mold the current situation in a proper rebuild. We have next to no foundation. That takes a substantial amount of time to build properly if you want it through the draft.

[PNW_PantherMan]

18 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I am guessing if things go about average(and historically we are far, far, far below average) in the upcoming drafts, it would take 6-10 years of solid drafting(not great just solid) to really mold the current situation in a proper rebuild. We have next to no foundation. That takes a substantial amount of time to build properly if you want it through the draft.

6-10 years?  By 10 years the original players are retiring or on the way towards retirement lol.  You don't need to hit on 53 players in the draft to build a roster.  If they know what they're doing, the team can be turned around in 2-3 seasons.  Probably more like 3 in this case.  You need to hit on a few picks and then fill in the rest however you can.  Great players have the effect of making the role players better.  For example, Derrick Brown made the entire defense better last year.  Our team sucks, but hitting on a few picks makes a world of difference.  We haven't really hit on any picks since Marty Hurney got fired a 2nd time.

The only time a rebuild takes 10 years is when it takes 7 or 8 years to hire the right people.

[RumHam]

39 minutes ago, CRA said:

dude had 600 yards out of the ACC.... and he wasn't top WR in yards per reception.  

I'm only knocking him at 33 given who else is going to be likely available.  I'd say his main strength was contested catches at FSU.  I just think there are more explosive players. 

I just don't love either of the FSU guys this year.   I'd love a late flier on their QB though. 

 

he also knows how to run routes, is very smart, has good hands, and is a proven leader. Seems people complained about route running. I also like Legette a lot, but i think he struggles with route running. we need lineman, this isn't 7 on 7 and a quarterback that is allowed to make more plays with his legs and not just stand in the pocket like it is a 7 on 7 game.

[CRA]

7 minutes ago, RumHam said:

he also knows how to run routes, is very smart, has good hands, and is a proven leader. Seems people complained about route running. I also like Legette a lot, but i think he struggles with route running. we need lineman, this isn't 7 on 7 and a quarterback that is allowed to make more plays with his legs and not just stand in the pocket like it is a 7 on 7 game.

Legette is intriguing.  Really came out of nowhere.  More on the raw side but you really got to love what he did out of the SEC this year.  And everyone on the field knew that is where the ball had to go for Rattler to make a big play and he just kept making them. 

I'd don't love him at 33 but I'd love him at a different spot.  I'll be honest, I hate our draft position for this year.  All we got is that 33 in the top 2 rounds.  Not sure I'll love anything given how little we have lol.  Maybe I will change my mind about trading down the more I think of it. 

I just hope we take advantage of the WR talent in this draft and walk away with someone at WR in round 2. 

[RumHam]

1 minute ago, CRA said:

Legette is intriguing.  Really came out of nowhere.  More on the raw side but you really got to love what he did out of the SEC this year.  And everyone on the field knew that is where the ball had to go for Rattler to make a big play and he just kept making them. 

I'd don't love him at 33 but I'd love him at a different spot.  I'll be honest, I hate our draft position for this year.  All we got is that 33 in the top 2 rounds.  Not sure I'll love anything given how little we have lol.  Maybe I will change my mind about trading down the more I think of it. 

I just hope we take advantage of the WR talent in this draft and walk away with someone at WR in round 2. 

i mean it's not going to happen this year. you can get high talent at G/C/TE right here and potentially ILB/DT. I have no issue with that. but reaching for a WR and we never draft WR good in the second round should be a red flag. Can also nab a RB here that's high, b/c these are just not positions highly valued on draft lists, but we can use literally any of these spots.