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Updated 2025 draft order

Champagnepapi704

By Champagnepapi704,
in Carolina Panthers

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tukafan21 Grand Master

tukafan21

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Posted
6 hours ago, Tr3ach said:

I still just don't know about repeatedly chasing big bodied receivers.  I've not watched him a whole lot yet but I don't see much quickness or explosiveness in him.  I'm not even sure he has the long straight line speed a lot of these big guys have, but I could be wrong.

LOLOLOLOL

Yea, you didn't need to say that you haven't watched T-Mac a whole lot yet if you're also saying you don't see much quickness or explosiveness in him, as saying that is a clear sign you have no idea what you're talking about.

No, he's not a speedster who is going change a game in the way a Tyreek does, but just saying he's a "big bodied receiver" is wildly unfair and show you really haven't watched him play other than maybe seeing a couple of his stupidly absurd highlight reel catches.  If he's not already the #1 WR on every team's draft board after the season (and he will be on most of them by then anyways), he'll easily jump up there after the combine when people see his speed/agility on display against everyone else and the time's he'll put up.

Yes, he's 6'5", but he's the furthest thing from a Kelvin Benjamin as possible if that's your concern in "chasing a big bodied receiver"

He is an absolute BEAST making plays down the field on deep balls and using his size and absurdly strong hands to make catches over DBs, but he's also constantly used on short routes to get the ball into his hands and let him make defenders miss, which he does all the time as he has more than enough quickness for a WR his size.

As Cam said, his widely used comp is Mike Evans.  But I personally think they just use him to use a current player, and there are only a handful of WR's big enough to choose from, and frankly, yes, Evans is probably the best comp of current players.  But he also used AJ Green, which I'm quite sure he got from me, lol, as that's the comp I've used for him for about 2 years now, from day 1, I've always seen AJ when watching him play, except T-Mac is actually an inch taller than AJ is.

You can find those smaller, fast quick twitch type of WR's in middle rounds of the draft or FA, but 6'5" true outside WRs who have the speed and agility of someone more like 6'1" don't grow on trees, you can't get a WR like him outside the Top 10 in the draft.  There's only a small handful of WRs who are even 6'5" these days, but none of them have T-Mac's speed/agility.  Even with the Evans comp, T-Mac is faster and has more wiggle in his game than Evans (while Evans is a good 20 lbs heavier and a bit stronger, hence why I like the AJ Green comparison more).

By the time he's ready to sign his 2nd NFL contract, T-Mac will be considered a unanimous Top 10 WR in the league and most people will even rank him in their personal Top 5.  This isn't a guess, a prediction, or a hope, it's just a fact, because he's going to be THAT good at the next level.

I've said this before, yes, I'm an Arizona alumni so I have a bias towards him.  But at the same time, I've been confident in dozens of Arizona football and basketball players over the years, and have had some have panned out, some haven't.  But there is only one other Wildcat player I've felt this strongly about as to who they would become in the NFL, and that was Gronkowski.

I'm not saying T-Mac is going to become the best WR of all time like Gronk did as a TE, but I spent Gronk's 3 years in college telling everyone that he was the next big thing at TE in the NFL and he'd be a decade long All-Pro.

Same goes for T-Mac.

Draft him, don't be dumb.

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tukafan21 Grand Master

tukafan21

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4 hours ago, BullCityP said:

If his natural position is left tackle he must have not been great at it if they moved him to the right lol

I think he's only played a game or two at LT, he's been on the right since the second he was drafted because they already had a franchise LT in Taylor Decker, the only games he played over there was when that guy was injured.

Sewell was who I always wanted in that draft and I'm still bitter about Detroit taking him one pick before us (and being from Michigan with all my friends being Lions fans, they still laugh about how angry I was when that happened as we were all watching that draft together).

Sewell is the best RT in football and if he was on the left side, he'd still be an All-Pro over there too.

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Tr3ach Grand Master

Tr3ach

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22 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

LOLOLOLOL

Yea, you didn't need to say that you haven't watched T-Mac a whole lot yet if you're also saying you don't see much quickness or explosiveness in him, as saying that is a clear sign you have no idea what you're talking about.

No, he's not a speedster who is going change a game in the way a Tyreek does, but just saying he's a "big bodied receiver" is wildly unfair and show you really haven't watched him play other than maybe seeing a couple of his stupidly absurd highlight reel catches.  If he's not already the #1 WR on every team's draft board after the season (and he will be on most of them by then anyways), he'll easily jump up there after the combine when people see his speed/agility on display against everyone else and the time's he'll put up.

Yes, he's 6'5", but he's the furthest thing from a Kelvin Benjamin as possible if that's your concern in "chasing a big bodied receiver"

He is an absolute BEAST making plays down the field on deep balls and using his size and absurdly strong hands to make catches over DBs, but he's also constantly used on short routes to get the ball into his hands and let him make defenders miss, which he does all the time as he has more than enough quickness for a WR his size.

As Cam said, his widely used comp is Mike Evans.  But I personally think they just use him to use a current player, and there are only a handful of WR's big enough to choose from, and frankly, yes, Evans is probably the best comp of current players.  But he also used AJ Green, which I'm quite sure he got from me, lol, as that's the comp I've used for him for about 2 years now, from day 1, I've always seen AJ when watching him play, except T-Mac is actually an inch taller than AJ is.

You can find those smaller, fast quick twitch type of WR's in middle rounds of the draft or FA, but 6'5" true outside WRs who have the speed and agility of someone more like 6'1" don't grow on trees, you can't get a WR like him outside the Top 10 in the draft.  There's only a small handful of WRs who are even 6'5" these days, but none of them have T-Mac's speed/agility.  Even with the Evans comp, T-Mac is faster and has more wiggle in his game than Evans (while Evans is a good 20 lbs heavier and a bit stronger, hence why I like the AJ Green comparison more).

By the time he's ready to sign his 2nd NFL contract, T-Mac will be considered a unanimous Top 10 WR in the league and most people will even rank him in their personal Top 5.  This isn't a guess, a prediction, or a hope, it's just a fact, because he's going to be THAT good at the next level.

I've said this before, yes, I'm an Arizona alumni so I have a bias towards him.  But at the same time, I've been confident in dozens of Arizona football and basketball players over the years, and have had some have panned out, some haven't.  But there is only one other Wildcat player I've felt this strongly about as to who they would become in the NFL, and that was Gronkowski.

I'm not saying T-Mac is going to become the best WR of all time like Gronk did as a TE, but I spent Gronk's 3 years in college telling everyone that he was the next big thing at TE in the NFL and he'd be a decade long All-Pro.

Same goes for T-Mac.

Draft him, don't be dumb.

Yea, you're right.  I think you're definitely bias.   Show me some routes that show his quickness and explosiveness.  Getting open downfield doesn't necessarily mean you're fast, it especially doesn't mean you're quick.   Lots of wide receivers get open deep in college.  I'm not saying not to take him, I'm just saying so far I haven't seen a lot of quickness or full route tree ability that we always ignore.  Most of the best receivers in the modern NFL aren't big bodied receivers.    Of the top 15 or so receivers in the NFL this season i believe maybe 4 are above 6'1.  Quickness/change of direction and route running are much more important in my opinion in the modern NFL than height.  The modern NFL revolves around quick separation, timing, and tax.  Plus we just drafted XL to be a big body guy.

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tukafan21 Grand Master

tukafan21

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14 minutes ago, Tr3ach said:

Yea, you're right.  I think you're definitely bias.   Show me some routes that show his quickness and explosiveness.  Getting open downfield doesn't necessarily mean you're fast, it especially doesn't mean you're quick.   Lots of wide receivers get open deep in college.  I'm not saying not to take him, I'm just saying so far I haven't seen a lot of quickness or full route tree ability that we always ignore.  Most of the best receivers in the modern NFL aren't big bodied receivers.    Of the top 15 or so receivers in the NFL this season i believe maybe 4 are above 6'1.  Quickness/change of direction and route running are much more important in my opinion in the modern NFL than height.  The modern NFL revolves around quick separation, timing, and tax.  Plus we just drafted XL to be a big body guy.

Your point about how few of the Top WRs right now that are over 6'1" is EXACTLY why we should be taking him, because he's a different kind of player that other teams just can't replicate.

And I don't have all sorts of cut up tape showing his route trees or anything like that of course, and I'm not going to spend an hour watching highlight clips to find specific ones to show you, but just started watching one of his highlight reels and saw a bunch in a row that should help you see that in him.

Watch this one and start watching at 1:05 into the clip, there's like 5 or 6 straight plays from that point that help showcase the speed and agility that he has, with him making defenders miss and running away from others.  Again, if I had access to all his routes, you could cut them up in a way that showcases it better, but for just spending 2 minutes looking, this isn't bad lol

EDIT:  I also still had the clip running in the background just now and saw another great one to look at.  Go to 4:20 into the video and look at the route he runs in such a small space to get open for the TD, that's not something most 6'5" WRs are capable of doing.

And this isn't even when you take into account the kind of catches he can make, every week he makes the most absurd one handed and sideline grabs that you'll ever see.

I also think it's funny that you think I have bias towards him and then in the next sentence say something that again shows you have no idea about his game.

 

Edited by tukafan21
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tukafan21 Grand Master

tukafan21

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Posted (edited)
45 minutes ago, Tr3ach said:

Yea, you're right.  I think you're definitely bias.   Show me some routes that show his quickness and explosiveness.  Getting open downfield doesn't necessarily mean you're fast, it especially doesn't mean you're quick.   Lots of wide receivers get open deep in college.  I'm not saying not to take him, I'm just saying so far I haven't seen a lot of quickness or full route tree ability that we always ignore.  Most of the best receivers in the modern NFL aren't big bodied receivers.    Of the top 15 or so receivers in the NFL this season i believe maybe 4 are above 6'1.  Quickness/change of direction and route running are much more important in my opinion in the modern NFL than height.  The modern NFL revolves around quick separation, timing, and tax.  Plus we just drafted XL to be a big body guy.

Full disclosure I responded to this before fully reading the whole post.

As if I had, I’d have laughed at you saying you haven’t seen a full route tree from him, as that’s EXACTLY what he has in his bag.  That right there just shows you haven’t watched him at all outside of the downfield highlight reel plays. 

He already runs a full NFL level route tree, at all 3 levels.  As I’ve said numerous times before, XL is the big bodied possession guy, while T-Mac would be the true outside #1 who can do it all and a perfect compliment to XL.  

Want to draft someone else all you want, that’s totally fair.  But don’t try and say he’s just a big bodied WR who lacks quickness and can’t run a full route tree, as it’s just the furthest thing from the truth.  
 

And it’s okay, after you watch some more clips, you can admit that you were wrong and I’m not showing my own bias towards him.  It’s not like I’m advocating for someone who should be a late 1st rounder or even a mid 1st round pick, this is someone who’s been mocked as high as #2 by a lot of experts lately.

The kid is a stud and he has every tool in his bag that you’d want an outside #1 to have.

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tukafan21 Grand Master

tukafan21

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11 minutes ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

Tuka is on fire!

You go after my guy with nonsense like "I don't see quickness or explosiveness" and "I haven't seen a lot of quickness or full route tree ability that we always ignore"

Then yea, I'm gonna punch back.

Like I've said, if people want to draft someone else, that's totally fine, everyone has their own opinions.  But if you're going to advocate against a specific player, don't talk complete nonsense about their game like this.

Even more so, don't do that when you're saying I'm the one with a bias towards him.

If I was afraid of it looking like a bias pick on my part, I'd never have said I was an Arizona alumni when arguing for him, but I've admitted it from the very beginning, because I don't think my Arizona connection gives me a bias, it just means I know his game REALLY well as I've seen every snap of his college career.  So yea, you start saying the knocks on him are things that he's actually really good at, then you're going to get an earful from me with some video evidence to back it up.

In the end, for me, it all falls back to how rare a player like T-Mac can be due to his size.  The smaller speedier type of WRs are exactly who you can find in later rounds and who become available as Free Agents, I can't ever get on board with taking a Hunter (as a WR) or Burden over T-Mac if all were on the board, for that reason alone, and I'd say that if he was a freaking Sun Devil, no matter how much it would hurt me to admit if it if that were the case.

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Captain Morgan Grand Master

Captain Morgan

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btw, mingo supposed to play tonight.  we want Cowboys to lose for more than one reason, but they are imploding and their 4th round pick is ours.

Rams started rough this year, we have their second rounder, and for a while it a in the top 10 picks.  they are going the opposite direction of the Cowboys.  I do think they have Kansas City after us, so that will help

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tukafan21 Grand Master

tukafan21

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And btw, you have to remember that T-Mac is doing all this with pretty poor QB play this year, on a team that's a mess with no other quality offensive weapons to take attention away from him.  

Yet he's still 3rd in the nation in receiving yards with defenses knowing he's our 1st, 2nd, and 3rd option on every passing play.  He still gets open at all 3 levels and when he can't get open because of the double and triple coverage, he consistently makes crazy contested catches that those 6' WRs that are a little more explosive and fast, just can't make.

If he was on one of those elite college teams, with a great QB and multiple elite WR and RB options to take attention and give T-Mac single coverage on every play, he'd be putting up bonkers video game like numbers.

He's the straight up full package, if we don't end up with him, 5 years from now everyone here is going to look back and say, "yep, he was right about this guy"

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