Jump to content
  • Welcome!

    Register and log in easily with Twitter or Google accounts!

    Or simply create a new Huddle account. 

    Members receive fewer ads , access our dark theme, and the ability to join the discussion!

     

I was ready to jump on Bryce about QBR & passer RTG, but...


TD alt
 Share

Recommended Posts

I know that plenty of people want to disregard stats in favor of the eye test and all that, and I've been guilty of it when it just doesn't support my narrative based upon observation, but you have to have some kind of way to judge these guys. I will say that QBR has been lauded as the better metric by many analysts (especially ESPN analysts), But passer rating is important as well, as you will see from perusing the last five games of these guys. What we can't see is, at least from these stats, is what I call the "win gene." Some guys are simply going to carry their teams to the win near the end of games (like Mahomes or Brady), and some just can't seem to get it done on a consistent basis. We also can't necessarily quantify from these images is how important the supporting casts are (from an offensive and defensive perspective) and how they affect a QB's overall passer rating and QBR, but we all know they play an important part, and I believe that it's not a mistake that the best QBs, especially the ones that push for championships, have solid supporting casts. 

 Bryce is making strides, but is not in the top echelons at this point, even during the last month or so.

Screenshot_20241230_125932_Chrome.thumb.jpg.750c5825904e52f2e1baead668e28377.jpg

I think Bryce has some failings for sure and I'm still highly skeptical of his height and how that impacts his ability to see the field which of course speaks to making the proper reads, ball placement and passing in general, but he may be able to hold his own among the big boys one day.

Plenty of people are still lauding Stroud and he has shown an ability to be an elite passer at times, but his decision making leaves a lot to be desired, and, honestly there may come a day (and it might not be that far off) that Bryce may surpass him, if nothing else at QB efficiency. If you're going to give Stroud grace, then you gotta give Bryce Grace as well. I don't care what Stroud looked like yesteryear, how's he looking now?

Screenshot_20241230_130031_Chrome.thumb.jpg.0a324d69fc6304cfddf2bfb3c0a93387.jpg

 

Pat Mahomes hasn't been very efficient this season, but there's a trend the last couple of games 📈 

Screenshot_20241230_130127_Chrome.thumb.jpg.b349345e5bc2631704bec0c2d1c236d2.jpg

 

And everyone has lauded Josh Allen 

Screenshot_20241230_130220_Chrome.thumb.jpg.4c3fc828d8387599983efddfed515831.jpg

Allen has been excellent, but has he really been better than Lamar Jackson?

Screenshot_20241230_130344_Chrome.thumb.jpg.2e8bdfc989d04d40ad7d7111f56b45bf.jpg

And, then there's Sam.  Darnold is carving teams up.

Screenshot_20241230_130707_Chrome.thumb.jpg.01e47b78d06d93d29470f7db61410c75.jpg

And last but not least is the so-called Joe Cool (which is impossible because this guy isn't 68 years old). Burrow is playing well, but he may be left on the outside looking in. Burrow's line has been letting him down, but he's still playing at a high level.

Screenshot_20241230_134515_Chrome.thumb.jpg.b0f122cb5d723676712d114011675485.jpg

 

So, again, there's only so much QBR and passer rating can tell you. But, I'd say that just looking at the numbers and reflecting upon the context of the situation, Bryce may be able to be that franchise QB that we've been looking for. It's not a stretch based upon his efficiency. But he has to keep improving and play to a level of consistency befitting of a QB1. That being said, he's going to have more games with a passer rating in the 100s if we can really expect to be legitimate contenders for championships. That QBR will have to rise as well. Whether he can raise his game to that level is anyone's guess, but with better personnel will likely come consistently better play...At least that's the hope. And yes, that is actual "hope" and not "cope" looking at his current efficiency level.

Edited by TD alt
  • Pie 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The list of truly franchise-altering QBs is a lot smaller than people think IMO. Half of the good QBs in the league now were either late-bloomers or just found the right situation/coach. 

Bryce has his faults, but he's improving. All things considered (the rookie contract) and the need to build this entire team? Bryce is one of the best options we can make for next year, and I'd argue there's only 10-12 guys we'd for sure take over him. 

  • Pie 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, PanthersNCSU said:

The list of truly franchise-altering QBs is a lot smaller than people think IMO. Half of the good QBs in the league now were either late-bloomers or just found the right situation/coach. 

Bryce has his faults, but he's improving. All things considered (the rookie contract) and the need to build this entire team? Bryce is one of the best options we can make for next year, and I'd argue there's only 10-12 guys we'd for sure take over him. 

The elite class at QB is always pretty small. The second group is usually bigger, with the Goff/Cousins/Matt Ryan/Dak tier. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

45 minutes ago, PanthersNCSU said:

...I'd argue there's only 10-12 guys we'd for sure take over him. 

Interesting. I still think that you may be saying this in light of what we spent to get him. But, maybe not.

Let me just say that after seeing Bryce's height, which I believe absolutely affects his play negatively, and to a lesser extent his arm strength, there are more guys on the list for me than that. Like the Tuna said, "He better walk on water," and Bryce hasn't done that. But taking just my general belief that a QB needs a little size (pun not intended) and just looking at the relative results, I can see your point. 

It may be a hot take, but I can even see keeping Bryce over Stroud if we're looking at the last half of the season. Stroud is not in the company of Mahomes, Jackson, Burrow, Allen, Goff, or even Darnold, Love or Mayfield. 

The jury is still out on him and Young.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, pantherclaw said:

Bryce has shown me, he belongs.  

Better than most will ever give him credit for. 

See, I understand your optimism on an emotional level, but on an intellectual level, I don't see how at this point you can come to that conclusion. Especially in reference to having the skills to win a ring. He may likely "belong" in the NFL, but that doesn't necessarily mean he should be our starter. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, TD alt said:

See, I understand your optimism on an emotional level, but on an intellectual level, I don't see how at this point you can come to that conclusion. Especially in reference to having the skills to win a ring. He may likely "belong" in the NFL, but that doesn't necessarily mean he should be our starter. 

Not emotional. 

Thanks for talking down to me. 

Have a good day. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, pantherclaw said:

Not emotional. 

Thanks for talking down to me. 

Have a good day. 

I didn't realize that saying that I understood someone on an emotional level was "talking down" to them. You didn't really address the  point or answer the question that I was making. Wow, pantherclaw. Talking about being emotional for no damned good reason. But you do you.

Edited by TD alt
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, TD alt said:

I didn't realize that saying that I understood someone on an emotional level was "talking down" to them. You didn't really address the  point or answer the question that I was making. Wow, pantherclaw. Talking about being emotional for no damned good reason. But you do you.

You are making so.many assumptions. Incapable of even understanding what little has been said already. So i have no desire are debate with a wall. 

Nothing emotional about it at all.quite logical actually.

God Bless. 

Edited by pantherclaw
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, pantherclaw said:

You are making so.many assumptions. Incapable of even understanding what little has been said already. Sominhave no desire are debate with a wall. 

Nothing emotional about it at all.quite logical actually.

Gos Bless. 

You're the one making assumptions, and I've been the main one talking in this thread, so if there is something that was said to be misunderstood, it was by me. Carry on.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share


  • PMH4OWPW7JD2TDGWZKTOYL2T3E.jpg

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Give me Mitchell Evans over T Sanders in this run heavy offense any day of the week. 
    • What's up gents, the OGs remember me, the guy who single-handedly gave the Panthers the greatest uniform in history moniker. Not too long after that I got involved with Pro Football Focus (pre-Collinsworth acquisition) and ended up taking backseat here to preserve some objectivity. But from a distance I noticed a lot. After the end of the Cam era this place devolved into the most un-fun, petty, negative cesspool of whining and bitching that has ever graced the internet. The worst part of it all is that the level of discussion turned into the most ill-informed, hot-take, unnuanced crap, rife with people talking out of their posteriors as if they have any clue about what they are watching. Once you get into the professional side of the sport and actual film rooms, you start to understand there's an absurd number of moving parts to pretty much every snap and the details you are privy to are truly only half the picture. The absolute most important thing I learned from being part of professional level football analysis is that quarterbacking is literally the most intricate and difficult position in all of professional sports, and that the NFL itself is struggling to develop any workable model that allows them to understand what makes one succeed vs what makes one fail. Because of this paradox it has also made the quarterback position itself grossly overvalued from a fan and media standpoint, creating an absurd fixation on the results delivered by a single player who has to rely on the contributions of everyone around them. This also drives the dreaded inflation of QB salaries that inevitably cause even elite teams to lose key talent all to pour cash into the one player supposed to be able to single-handedly elevate the entire team (and defense and special teams and coaching and ownership by some mysterious proxy), yet without those same players even talented teams can wander the wilderness searching for the right guy to take advantage of their talent window. The discussions the last few years around Bryce has personified this insanity, as this board has devolved into some sort of electronic civil war between the hyperbolic Young supporters and the vitriolic Bryce haters. The reality, like practically everything in this world, is somewhere in the middle. He has traits that can absolutely elevate a team with creativity, play recognition, off-arm angle throws, mental toughness, etc. He's also physically limited, with mostly "good-enough" qualities for most situations that a professional quarterback is asked to do, and will never be an overpowering physical force like pre-injury Cam. But "good-enough" physicality represents a large majority of championship-winning quarterbacks, even in the modern era. There's a reason the corpse of Peyton Manning took the chip from elite physical specimen Cam, because the team surrounding him was talented enough to get him there, while we all know Cam was the driving force of that 2015 team. That's no knock on him, that's just how the game of football tends to work: the more complete team usually wins. The summary is this: if this team lives or dies solely on the performance of its quarterback, then it is absolutely a paper tiger even if he plays brilliantly week in and out. There are no superheroes in this sport, there are only conduits that proxy the collective efforts of much of the team around them. And no one alive can tell you how the position is played perfectly, it's all a confluence of circumstance and what unique collection of traits each player brings to the position, which can never be truly recreated season after season, even for the same player on the same team. If this place remains a raging hellscape of idiotic hot takes I will happily remove myself again and do something more productive for yet another decade, but maybe's there hope that we can all get back to the old adage, and keep pounding.
    • Really impressed how the bottom six have looked the past couple games
×
×
  • Create New...