would JR even pay for a #1 pick?

[CatMan72]

that kind of talk gives both sides good quotes in the press and is the direct result of a good publicist but the number is the key and that number is guaranteed to be nowhere close to being agree upon. I bet they are not inside of a 50% gap and it may be bigger than that.

It's one of the few things that benefits both the current players and the owners, so it's easy for me to believe they agree on it.

Imagine being Tom Brady and watching Sam Bradford come into the league and instantly make more than you do...

[panthers55]

I don't think he would in normal circumstances. I'm almost positive he won't in these.

We will trade number 1-3 to somebody with a mid 1st and high second. That is where this FO is comfortable on draft day.

If he feels Clausen is the one then that makes sense. If Clausen is not the one then we need a franchise guy and if Luck comes out we need him. Otherwise guys like Can Newton and Mallett could be had later on. As for trading down for more picks, we need to do that this year and in the future. If we want to emulate great franchises we need to mimic the best and as far as the draft and getting good value for the money they spend, New England is one of the best.

[jtm]

It's one of the few things that benefits both the current players and the owners, so it's easy for me to believe they agree on it.

Imagine being Tom Brady and watching Sam Bradford come into the league and instantly make more than you do...

It is a major problem in my opinion and there needs to be a more restrictive cap. The money these guys are making before even taking a snap is remarkable. I don't blame them. They are worth what the market is willing to pay.

The reality is most teams don't want a top 5 pick any longer because of this unless they can trade down.

[carolinarolls]

It's one of the few things that benefits both the current players and the owners, so it's easy for me to believe they agree on it.

Imagine being Tom Brady and watching Sam Bradford come into the league and instantly make more than you do...

that scenario would suck for sure, and I can certainly believe that the veterans want it for that reason, however what that usually means is terms to renegotiate the current deal if you are Tom Brady and that can't be all bad. I believe the percentages in a scenario like you mentioned show that Tom would get more money as well as Bradford will get paid. Win Win for the players and their agents.

However, do you really believe the players want it as bad as the owners? The owners are sick of taking risks and have PLENTY of documentation that can be presented to show that they stand to lose money more often than not if they are clever enough (and they are).

You might get the NFLPA spokesperson and some household name player/veterans to verbally acknowledge agreement with this rookie cap theory but I seriously doubt either of them will ever seriously consider what the owners are thinking his cap will be in terms of salary and terms.

So while both sides will claim they are in support of a cap both sides are not being entirely truthful. Owners want it to minimize risk and therefore cut costs. Players want to say they want it to not look greedy in front of the everyman ticket holder and to insure there is a season full of Sunday game checks...but they don't really want it. How could they?

[panther4life]

I just talked to a former nfl player who says jerry is not cheap and will do anything to get the guy that his gm/coach say is worth it.

He didnt do much here so some of you guys may not remember him,but his name is Sean Gilbert

[rayzor]

If he feels Clausen is the one then that makes sense. If Clausen is not the one then we need a franchise guy and if Luck comes out we need him. Otherwise guys like Can Newton and Mallett could be had later on. As for trading down for more picks, we need to do that this year and in the future. If we want to emulate great franchises we need to mimic the best and as far as the draft and getting good value for the money they spend, New England is one of the best.

passing up on luck to stay with clausen would mean that we were 100% confident in clausen's ability to lead this team to a couple rings (which is something i don't think anyone could say with a straight face). if we aren't convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that clausen is the guy and luck is available, then we HAVE to take luck.

i like the idea of trading down like the pats do, but they can afford to pass up on top tier players because they have such a good system and the perfect QB for it already in place. that makes them richer than just about any other team out there and much more able to take advantage of desperate teams. we have to have that legit franchise QB and system in place before we can reach the level that the pats have in those regards.

[Highlandfire]

With all this talk about how we all want the number 1 pick and how everybody wants Luck, what makes you think JR wouldn't make Hurney trade out of it and aquire more later round picks to get out of paying 80 million? I mean don't get me wrong, I think Luck/Harbaugh is the best thing for us, but what if we trade it? Does anybody else get that feeling that he would do something like that?

Yes he will gladly pay the pick and anyone thinking otherwise is a fool. He did the RIGHT thing by cutting our player costs this year. He knew we weren't a playoff team, he knew he was going to poo can Fox etal at the end of the year. He knows there is a new CBA and a new cap going to come at some point.

For those wrist slitters out there try to see the big picture for once. The man has a good young core that is a few players and a good coaching staff away from being right back in the thick of winning the division, playoffs and maybe a superbowl. With us not having a ton of money tied up in current players and a top draft pick on the way, he is prime to turn this thing around in 1-2 offseasons tops.

So step away from the ledge and calm the fug down already OR do us all a favor and jump and make sure you take the rest of the chicken littles with you.

[carolinarolls]

I don't agree that he will gladly pay the pick. I do not think he wants it at all. Not ven sure I want it.

However I like the calm-the-fvk down points you bring and hope it helps somebody.

[panthers55]

People kill me. Since when is it a bad thing to make money? People here say this as if it is some kind of disease. Do you realize that no team can succeed without the NFL succeeding. It is a partnership and the two go hand in hand. If you think JR would rather the NFL be successful at the expense of the Panthers being terrible you are sorely mistaken.

If you want to see why the two must operate hand in hand take a look at the NHL or NBA. The NHL is pretty much non-existent now because of poor league decisions made years ago and the NBA has just come back in the past couple of years from poor decisions it made in the late 90's.

If you don't believe me, do a google search for 2010 NFL values by team. The most competitive teams are in the top half and the least competitive are in the bottom half. I am not saying that you can buy a championship. If that was the case, the Skins and Cowboys would win every year. All I am saying is there needs to be balance and making money isn't a bad thing.

Take a look at team salaries and some of the most highly valued teams with the most consistent winning are actually in the middle or even the bottom of spending many years. Indy and New England are 2 of those.

So you are right making money isn't the problem, spending it well is. And for most of Richardson's tenure we have tried different thinks with varying success. We need a consistent approach and philosophy hence the reason why Hurney needs to stay.

[jtm]

As far as the pick, I am not sure I want it either. If we in fact get the pick, the decision to draft Luck or not draft will ultimately determine our next coach's fate. If we pass on Luck and trade down and Clausen doesn't pan out, he will never live this down. But, if he takes Luck and Luck doesn't live up to the hype he will never hear the end of it because we have invested so many picks trying to find the right guy.

I am glad I am not the one making the decision because I honestly don't know what I would do. Kind of damned if you do damned if you don't. I think most experts agree you have to give a QB 1-2 years before making an assessment if they are up to the job or not.

[Mr. Scot]

passing up on luck to stay with clausen would mean that we were 100% confident in clausen's ability to lead this team to a couple rings (which is something i don't think anyone could say with a straight face). if we aren't convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that clausen is the guy and luck is available, then we HAVE to take luck.

Said it before. Passing on Luck without a franchise QB in place is the kind of move that could make the team a laughingstock.

[panthers55]

Even if you think JR only cares about the money, which by the way I do not think that is the case. The reality is, winning teams make a lot more money than losing teams. People that say JR only cares about money and then say he doesn't care about winning are making an argument that is fatally flawed. When teams win they sell more tickets, sell more beer and concessions, sell more jerseys, and most importantly sell more advertising and at a higher rate. I don't think the local community or corporate america is lining up right now to poney up millions of dollars in advertising for a half empty stadium.

Do people really think a team makes the same amount of money in a winning year v. a losing year? Do you also not think that JR is acutely aware of Charlotte's feelings towards owners like this (aka George Shinn).

I don't think most folks don't think richardson wants to win. The points raised where that winning takes a back seat to the CBA agreement and gaining an advantage in negotiating by not spending money on free agents and getting rid of many veterans.

The other point I raise is that I think that he spent money in 2009 for a mediocre product and said consciously that if we are going to do that, we could win 8 games with rookies and draft picks and save a ton of money. When Peppers left he started unloading guys as evidenced by his signing Diggs to a 3 year extension and then cutting him 3 months later. It was obviously a change in plans.

He just didn't think we would be that bad although every other knowledgable guy out there said as much.

He wants to win as long as it stays in a budget. That is reasonable acctually as long as it works.

[rayzor]

Said it before. Passing on Luck without a franchise QB in place is the kind of move that could make the team a laughingstock.

fwiw, i can see that being someone like fox and cowher would do....mainly because they have done it.

[rayzor]

I don't think most folks don't think richardson wants to win. The points raised where that winning takes a back seat to the CBA agreement and gaining an advantage in negotiating by not spending money on free agents and getting rid of many veterans.

The other point I raise is that I think that he spent money in 2009 for a mediocre product and said consciously that if we are going to do that, we could win 8 games with rookies and draft picks and save a ton of money. When Peppers left he started unloading guys as evidenced by his signing Diggs to a 3 year extension and then cutting him 3 months later. It was obviously a change in plans.

He just didn't think we would be that bad although every other knowledgable guy out there said as much.

He wants to win as long as it stays in a budget. That is reasonable acctually as long as it works.

one of the things that richardson reportedly told one of the fans he called was that he told fox and hurney a couple years ago that if they couldn't put back to back winning seasons together with the group of players they have, he was going to essentially start over with a younger team.

the core players that fox had been working with, it was easy to see that the window of opportunity was closing. it just made sense that they were on the decline and in spite of fox's level of comfort with them, it was becoming increasingly apparent that they weren't going to be able to get the job done and were on the decline. i get the sens that fox was campaigning for his guys and was reluctant to move away from them so richardson forced his hand. that could be a lot of the reason fox wasn't offered another deal. richardson saw it was necessary to rebuild/reload and fox wasn't willing to do it.

cutting players this year made sense because of the cap implications. there was no benefit to firing fox because he would still be on the hook for $6mil. the contract was going to be up after this year and fox isn't a bad coach so he should be able to work with the team he was given this year, right? the only real fail was in believing that fox could win a few games with this team. other than that, the plan was a good one.