CBA News: Heating Up 1/19/2011

[Panthro]

How is a lockout in the best interest of the players? The thing to do is keep communicating, not be obstinate.

That could be considered a sign of weakness...well at least to people in the negotiating business

[panthers55]

DeMarice Smith thinks he is some revolutionary leader? Did he say that or are you making that up? Not denying that pro athletes are spoiled, but I don't see any owner's out there picking up bottles off the sides of the street either. Both sides are spoiled.

You got the NFL owners who are asking for:

1. The players to take a pay cut because they say they are losing money

2. 18 game schedule to make more money

3. More money to go into "future expansion"... like the church building fund.

4. Rookie Salary Cap/wage scale

5. Implement new injury rules to protect the players.

You got the players who want:

1. To see the books to see if the NFL teams are truly losing money

2. Extra pay for playing extra games or more players or roster.

3. Make sure the future expansion money is used for future expansion.

4. Don't want rookie salary cap

Right now I'm more on the players side, based off the reluctance of the owners to open up the books. The one team with open books, The Packers are showing making more money. However there needs to be a rookie salary cap. I am also not sure if 18 games are a good idea. I just want less preseason games. If they are worried about injuries adding 2 more high intensity games doesn't make sense to me.

Owners have invested 100 millions of dollars of their own money to buy the franchises so they expect a return on investment. Players have none of their money involved.

Owners are willing to pay players what they are earning now provided the owners can make more revenue by convertng 2 preseason games into regular season games. Players may play 4 more quarters of ball in a season. Playoff teams already play up to a 20 game season so the "more injuries" issue would be a huge concern in the playoffs and it isn't that big a deal.

Rookie wages saving would go to the veterans or to healthcare for retired players or toward pension plans.

Owners don't want to give players a paycut so much as a lower percentage of revenue. From 60% to closer to 50%.

If overall revenue goes up like with a 18 game schedule. players will make the same amount or more.

Players want to see the books to strengthen their negotiating position which rarely if ever happens.

Players want lifetime medical benefits and guaranteed pensions for life. Who else has that after typically 3-12 years of service?

Expansion money paid by the players won't happen and was just an arguing point. No player is going to help build a new stadium.

Addidng more roster spots and expanding the active roster will happen if the 18 games season gets adopted.

[panthers55]

If there is a lockout, it'll only be for one season. One side is going to break under the pressure and I have a feeling it won't be the players.

Owners won't lockout because that allows the union to decertify. They will impose the last best offer on the union and make them accept it or strike. That makes them the players the bad guys and the ones who are holding out.

[Panthro]

Owners have invested 100 millions of dollars of their own money to buy the franchises so they expect a return on investment. Players have none of their money involved.

Owners are willing to pay players what they are earning now provided the owners can make more revenue by convertng 2 preseason games into regular season games. Players may play 4 more quarters of ball in a season. Playoff teams already play up to a 20 game season so the "more injuries" issue would be a huge concern in the playoffs and it isn't that big a deal.

Rookie wages saving would go to the veterans or to healthcare for retired players or toward pension plans.

Owners don't want to give players a paycut so much as a lower percentage of revenue. From 60% to closer to 50%.

If overall revenue goes up like with a 18 game schedule. players will make the same amount or more.

Players want to see the books to strengthen their negotiating position which rarely if ever happens.

Players want lifetime medical benefits and guaranteed pensions for life. Who else has that after typically 3-12 years of service?

Expansion money paid by the players won't happen and was just an arguing point. No player is going to help build a new stadium.

Addidng more roster spots and expanding the active roster will happen if the 18 games season gets adopted.

This is the only part of what you said where I side with the players.

[jtm]

You got the players who want:

1. To see the books to see if the NFL teams are truly losing money

.

This is what the dispute boils down to. Everything else is pretty much negotiation and the sides will give in. At the end of the day, the players are employees and the bosses do not have to show them the books. If you doubt this, go into your job today and tell your boss you are not working anymore until you see his paycheck. Let me know how that works out for you-

[rayzor]

Players want lifetime medical benefits and guaranteed pensions for life. Who else has that after typically 3-12 years of service?

who else is asked to take the physical beating that these guys are? with all of the data coming out about the long term effects of concussions and all the other physical problems, plus the problems they have finding insurance after playing because of pre-existing conditions, health care is a huge concern.

when these guys finish their careers, they are usually in for a lifetime of pain from not just the beatings, but the toll on their bodies for keeping them in football shape.

i don't think asking the owners to help deal with this is that bad or unreasonable a thing.

[Gazi]

Record TV ratings, tv and licensing deals, and owners are saying that they're losing money so the players should take a pay cut. So the players are asking to see the books for themselves just to make sure the owners are honest. The owners refuse and threaten to lock them out.

What would you do?

[panthers55]

This is the only part of what you said where I side with the players.

Depends on the case. Lets say a player gets drafted and plays one season on a roster as a backup. Should he get a pension and lifetime medical benefits when he never got injured and didn't even start??

Where do you draw the line here?

[Gazi]

Depends on the case. Lets say a player gets drafted and plays one season on a roster as a backup. Should he get a pension and lifetime medical benefits when he never got injured and didn't even start??

Where do you draw the line here?

The line is already drawn. They have things in place, the limits and such. Players didn't go on a strike. The owners are going to lock them out after throwing away all of the current agreements.

Get it right

[panthers55]

who else is asked to take the physical beating that these guys are? with all of the data coming out about the long term effects of concussions and all the other physical problems, plus the problems they have finding insurance after playing because of pre-existing conditions, health care is a huge concern.

when these guys finish their careers, they are usually in for a lifetime of pain from not just the beatings, but the toll on their bodies for keeping them in football shape.

i don't think asking the owners to help deal with this is that bad or unreasonable a thing.

Where do you draw the line. Not all players in the NFL get injured severely or even suffer a concussion. Do you give the same benefits to a guy who plays on the practice squad for a year as you do for a 10 year veteran who has started 150 games. I think that players should have medical care and health care but should the NFL pay for it for everyone and for things that happen 20 years later that are unrelated to their football careers. What about guys that get jobs in the private sector that have benefits and insurance. Should the NFl policy just pay for preexisting conditions related to football or the whole burden.

[Panthro]

Depends on the case. Lets say a player gets drafted and plays one season on a roster as a backup. Should he get a pension and lifetime medical benefits when he never got injured and didn't even start??

Where do you draw the line here?

Great point. Perhaps not a pension but he should be eligible for medical care from any injuries sustained from playiong football. No matter when those injuries occured during his career. (popwarner -NFL)

[Mr. Scot]

They may not have to go with a lockout.

They can simply say "This is our best offer. These are the rules now. Take it or leave it."

If the players refuse, then rather than an owner's lockout, it becomes a players strike.

[g5jamz]

Nothing will be resolved by fans.

Let it happen.

If somehow we do NOT have an NFL season next year? I would imagine that there will be some shallow graves in the Vegas desert to make sure it doesn't happen again. Too much money.

[DevilCat]

Things are beginning to get interesting...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=6034842

ATLANTA -- NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell wants to see immediate progress in labor talks.

"It's time to get to the table and negotiate," he said Tuesday after an owners meeting Tuesday. "It takes a commitment to get it done. We have to see that."

The collective bargaining agreement with the players expires on March 4 after the NFL opted out of the deal in 2008. The sides are far apart on the major issues, including the players' share of revenues, a projected 18-game regular season, and a rookie wage scale. The union also has expressed concerns about health care, and its executive director, DeMaurice Smith, says he expects a lockout.

Asked if the 32 teams have been advised how to prepare for a lockout beyond ticket refunds, Goodell told NFL Network:

"Our clubs have prepared for all outcomes. We want an agreement. The first priority is to reach an agreement. We know we will get to an agreement. We hope it's sooner rather than later. The clubs are going to be responsible and they are going to be prepared for every alternative. The hope here is to get something done quickly so that we don't have to get into those issues. But they are prepared."

Thanks again ABH, as always for keeping the huddle up to date on the CBA. I really can't start to look forward to next season until this is cleared up.