How would you feel if Bryce did this in 2025

[Navy_football]

2 minutes ago, NAS said:

What Bryce lacks in elite arm strength he makes up with being able to throw from multiple angles and off platform throws.  Sometimes people don’t realize that’s just as important. But there is nothing about his arm strength that gives me pause he cleared that up last year

He definitely doesn't have elite arm strength. But he doesn't have the weak arm guys keep saying he has. Remember, he was overthrowing guys deep before. Now, he's put a little more air under his throws and he's completing them. Probably more of an adjustment to speed. He was used to having burners out wide. Not big body receivers. 

[Navy_football]

5 minutes ago, CRA said:

I think you need a big arm to make certain throws to the perimeter.  Deep is DNA, timing and placement.  

 

And he does it. He doesn't put it on a rope like Allen. He throws with anticipation and timing. Now, if he tried to throw that deep out late like Cam used to, he's probably looking at a pick 6. 

[PNW_PantherMan]

To the original post, I'd feel pretty good if he did that.  I'd want him to start again the following year, and I'd pick up his 5th year option.  I would probably not feel like it's time to give him the bag yet though.  I say probably because those stats don't have context.  If he led 7 game winning drives for example, maybe it's time to pay him.

[PantherKyle]

highly recommend, cool and hype watch

[Icege]

14 hours ago, PantherKyle said:

highly recommend, cool and hype watch

Great watch, thanks for the link. I've got their Baker vid queued up next.

 

Odd that folks seemed to have an issue with understanding BTT% but not TWP%... almost like the issue isn't so much the data but what it does to their narrative

[Icege]

On 5/6/2025 at 7:38 PM, CRA said:

Based on their definition, basically 90% of well placed balls to Adam Theilen would count as a big time throws.  Because all those are tight windows.  That’s where I think the definition is muddy in terms of what they do and don’t count.   Probably would help figure it out if we had a game and the number of throws they award him to get an idea of what does and doesn’t count 
 

a pass with high difficulty and value, often characterized by excellent ball location and timing, typically thrown further downfield or into a tighter window

 

On 5/7/2025 at 8:14 AM, CRA said:

Sure, but I have long acknowledged he got better.  He went from horrific to mid-lower end starter.  But now you can’t say that…..you got people wanting to spin top 10 play if you look at it this way, great deep ball passer if you only acknowledge x.  

I mean the headline in that article is nice for fans to run with.   But in reality Bryce Young was not the best deep passer in week 12.  Far from it.  He went 2 of 7 with no TDs deep.  The week was full of guy who went something along the lines of 3 of 4 with a bomb TD.   So Bryce then gets appointed best deep passer for say….plays like a 50/50 jump ball while trailing late to a fully covered AT that goes incomplete but could have been something given how the defender played it….not an actual good play.  But that could have been a good play.  I mean, same play could have been a pick if everything else was the same and the defender who had AT blanketed played the ball better (nothing changes for Bryce in terms of what he did.  It’s just a 50/50ish ball to someone covered)….and his entire best deep passer week 12 is built off plays that never happened over guys that actually got it done.  

we should be happy Bryce went from shouldn’t of been drafted play to serviceable starter last year.  But all this spin that he is somehow actually sneaky great just ain’t something I’m doing yet 

So... about that...

[CRA]

2 hours ago, Icege said:

 

So... about that...

Only "change" I have is simply wondering who is wrong....PFF or Next Gen Stats on if he was 2 of 6 or 2 of 7 on the day.  

but yeah, even meh players like will Levis per your info went 2 of 3 on the day w/ a TD...throwing deeper than Bryce on average.   

I still don't get the fixation on trying to manifest Bryce as a top 10 player.  All the non-PFF info if looked at collectively says he isn't a great deep ball passer nor is was he top 10 caliber post benching.  Eye test backs that as well.  PFF pretty much is on an island there IMO. 

[Basbear]

I just want him to win and not turn over the ball. I do not care if he throws for 170 yards in a 17-10 win. Just if the Panthers need a 4th quarter drive, deliver. If the game is shoot-out and 500 yards is needed, deliver. Whatever the game- rain, night, low scoring, etc etc. Just win. 

Just be the leader and win, while limiting TOs. 

[Icege]

17 hours ago, CRA said:

Only "change" I have is simply wondering who is wrong....PFF or Next Gen Stats on if he was 2 of 6 or 2 of 7 on the day.  

but yeah, even meh players like will Levis per your info went 2 of 3 on the day w/ a TD...throwing deeper than Bryce on average.   

I still don't get the fixation on trying to manifest Bryce as a top 10 player.  All the non-PFF info if looked at collectively says he isn't a great deep ball passer nor is was he top 10 caliber post benching.  Eye test backs that as well.  PFF pretty much is on an island there IMO. 

So you believe that Levis had a better day throwing deep because one of those was a TDs?

Asking for clarity on that as it was already clearly demonstrated that Bryce would've had a TD had Moore not dropped it in the back of the end zone. The entire purpose of their metric is to look at the throw and grade that because the QB has complete control over it. That was made abundantly clear from the video provided prior to that.

Nobody is trying to manifest him as a top-10 player. He had performances during his return from benching that measured in the top-10 in different metrics. The issue at play is that because those stats support Bryce's progress (and refutes that his ceiling is his floor), that you and other people that don't care for Bryce being the Panthers' QB are going out of your way to either a) ignore factual data, or b) cast uncertainty on the methodology. There's no actual interest in stats and facts like as you mentioned previously.

All of the non-PFF info, like passing yards in a single game, is also not entirely reliant on the QB. That's one of the points that Jimmy has hammered home but y'all continue to try and sidestep: that the ability to throw deep relies more on elements like timing rather than physically having a howitzer for an arm. Yes, arm strength does play a role but let's not be coy: the entire narrative that Bryce is not a capable deep ball thrower is 100% rooted in the same reasoning that folks had for thinking he wouldn't survive an NFL hit... bro is too smol. We have plenty of data (AND film) that show this. Whether or not the people that don't want it to be true stop clinging to what they want to believe instead is up to them.

[Icege]

These are the three deep throw attempts that Will Levis made in week 12. His first one is a beauty; Levis and Westbrook-Ikhine gets the safety to bite on a deep dig only to go over the top for the score. His second throw is another beauty: a crosser to Calvin Ridley reminiscent of Bryce to XL (though Ridley has noticeably more separation on his route). His third and final deep shot was an incompletion from his own endzone on 3rd & 14 with pressure coming down on him (to me, this seems like a solid throw).

 

Levis took half of the deep shots that Young did. The differences are:

• Ridley had much better separation than XL, which is why his deep crosser turned into a 63yd play since he was able to scamper for another 15+ after the catch.
• Westbrook-Ikhine holds on to his TD pass.
• Bryce had to throw one away to preserve time for a field goal.
• Bryce had two more throws that were incomplete due to the WR

Are we really holding the three WR errors and clock management decision against Bryce in order to say that Will was better throwing deep in week 12? That's not passing the eye test nor is it confirmed by the data.

Edited 10 hours ago by Icege

[CRA]

6 hours ago, Icege said:

So you believe that Levis had a better day throwing deep because one of those was a TDs?

Asking for clarity on that as it was already clearly demonstrated that Bryce would've had a TD had Moore not dropped it in the back of the end zone. The entire purpose of their metric is to look at the throw and grade that because the QB has complete control over it. That was made abundantly clear from the video provided prior to that.

Nobody is trying to manifest him as a top-10 player. He had performances during his return from benching that measured in the top-10 in different metrics. The issue at play is that because those stats support Bryce's progress (and refutes that his ceiling is his floor), that you and other people that don't care for Bryce being the Panthers' QB are going out of your way to either a) ignore factual data, or b) cast uncertainty on the methodology. There's no actual interest in stats and facts like as you mentioned previously.

All of the non-PFF info, like passing yards in a single game, is also not entirely reliant on the QB. That's one of the points that Jimmy has hammered home but y'all continue to try and sidestep: that the ability to throw deep relies more on elements like timing rather than physically having a howitzer for an arm. Yes, arm strength does play a role but let's not be coy: the entire narrative that Bryce is not a capable deep ball thrower is 100% rooted in the same reasoning that folks had for thinking he wouldn't survive an NFL hit... bro is too smol. We have plenty of data (AND film) that show this. Whether or not the people that don't want it to be true stop clinging to what they want to believe instead is up to them.

I believe the 2 and 7 guy wasn’t the best of the week.  And I don’t need to use Levis.  I can use all the players with a top notch completion percentage and scores that week.  At some point, reality carries the day over what if and subjective PFF stuff.  And keep in mind PFF isn’t one guys subjective take playing out and comparing itself.  It’s a bunch of different guys doing each game with different subjective takes and grades.  Think of it like boxing.  Judges don’t view it all the same.   That’s their subjective grading and it’s end result narrative is an outlier