Panthers give out massive guarantees to their Undrafted Free Agents

[Jon Snow]

5 hours ago, NAS said:

Does it count against the cap?

if not then this is where Teppet can make the difference with his checkbook

I don't think so. Only the top 53 contracts count against the cap,  unless that's been changed. 

[MHS831]

I think this is a youth movement and this is a sign.  Personally, I see four or five UDFA making this roster for this reason.  And veterans on the back end of their bell-shaped curves are not going to be given depth jobs--only developing talent.  That is how I would treat the bottom 20 spots, anyway.

They want to see what they have in camp first, which is smart.  I think the following players should be concerned (and the players who will take their jobs):

• David Moore WR (Jimmy Horn, sixth round pick)
• Hunter Renfrow WR (Kobie Hudson, Jacolby George)
• Yosh Nijman OT (Michael Tarquin)
• Jarrett Kingston OG (Luke Kandra--if both play well, I would not be surprised to see Zavala traded--he played well last year and has some value)
• Amare Barno Edge/OLB (Mapalo Mwansa--foreign player with some upside who does not count against the 53--no brainer for Panthers).
• DJ Johnson Edge/OLB  (With the additions of Princely, Scourton, and Jones to add to Wonnum, I see no way DJ makes the roster)
• LaBryan Ray DE (Jared Harrison-Hunt.  After adding Wharton to go with Brown and Robinson, Ray or Crumedy will be cut--or both).
• Shy Tuttle DE/DT  (Cam Jackson, fifth round pick--At DT, we signed veteran in Brown III and drafted a NT.  DE is crowded as well. I was surprised we re-signed him, frankly, but he is insurance should Jackson fail to step up. 
• Jaden Crumedy DE  (Harrison-Hunt is his competition, but he is also competing with Ray and possibly Tuttle).
• Akayleb Evans CB (Mike Reid, Corey Thornton.  Evans played OK at the end of the season.  He was not a liability.)
• S. Bartholomew CB (Mike Reid, Corey Thornton.  Bartholomew drew some difficult assignments last season down the stretch, but in the few plays I saw him, he was decent--got beat by some great throws and held his own.)
• Jacoby Windmon and Jon Rhattigan, ILBs (Martin-Scott, but watch out for Tuasivi, Nomura. should compete with these two, but all seem destined for the PS or being cut.  LB is suddenly a crowded room.  They like Cherelus who had a 63.3 PFF grade on 158 snaps--not bad.  Rozeboom was just added from the Rams and he should be the third ILB behind Jewell and Wallace.  Special teams will be the deciding factor if they keep 5.)
• Nick Scott S (Jack Henderson, Trevian Thomas, or Isaac Gifford--Scott is 30 and struggled in pass protection and against the run--otherwise, he was great.  He is insurance and his contract features no guaranteed money.  I fully expect Gifford, Henderson, or Thomas to take the fourth safety spot and one could stick as a special teamer--they may want a pure free safety for cover three packages (if we run them?), but in Henderson they get a player who is fairly similar to the other 3--Moehrig, Richardson, and Ransom.  Regardless, it is highly likely that an UDFA makes the roster at S)

Best chances (in my view from the outside looking in) for an UDFA to make the roster:

• Kicker:  Fitzgerald (90% sure)
• Safety: Henderson or Thomas or Gifford (75% sure that one will make the roster--about 30% sure that 2 will)
• Cornerback: Reid or Thornton (50% sure that one makes the roster; confident that both end up on PS if not on roster)
• Offensive Guard:  (50% sure that Kandra wins a spot.  Kingston and Kandra battle it out the for backup LG job)
• Offensive Tackle:  (35% sure that Nijman--29-- loses his job to Tarquin.  Cutting him frees about $1.5m.

For these reasons, I see 4-5 UDFA making the team.  S and K--near locks.

 

 

[kungfoodude]

13 hours ago, ChuckWag78 said:

Now this is where some of you need to give Tepper his due. His money is why we can give these types of guarantees to USDA with, such seemingly, disregard.  

Only the top 51 roster spots count toward the cap for a given year, so any money thrown toward UDFAs is 100% a lure to get them here. 

It is absolutely a competitive advantage his billions bring this team. 

I don't think it will make a HUGE difference because of the low hit rate but it is a great way to tilt the scale in your favor when it comes to signing.

Makes me wonder if eventually the NFL owners will get mad and tighten the rules on UDFA contracts.

[WhoKnows]

10 hours ago, tukafan21 said:

Yes and no

If there is someone we really want, maybe he's able to throw enough money to convince them to come here over somewhere else.

But at the same time, if I'm an UDFA, unless I'm just looking for a quick money grab before heading into a normal career, I'm telling my agent to get me to the team I'm most likely to get a chance to make the team and/or be seen enough to then get picked up by someone else.

Any good agent should be steering their UDFA's that way anyways, not like they're making all that much money on a "big" guarantee like these, they stand to gain much more from a client who makes a roster.

Agreed. I’m not sure why we think UDFAs are 100% about the money and us throwing money means we got the best ones. Sure, all things equal, get what you can get, an agent/player are looking to stick with a team. I got into a back and forth with someone in here about this when we signed UDFAs after the draft and ended the discussion with the below.

Just look at Coker last year, do you really think he signed with the Panthers for the most money and not because our WRs sucked? He got a $25k bonus and $225k  guaranteed. Thats nice and all but what did Coker get by being able to make the team and stick for year 2+? He got $795k for 2024 and $960k for 2025.

The UDFA guarantees are nice but the top UDFA players are absolutely 100% trying to find the best team fit. Again, talking about the guys who have the ability to make the 53, not guys who are jumping at any offer they can get. Making the team as a UDFA gets you 4-5x the initial money.

[mrcompletely11]

Just now, WhoKnows said:

Agreed. I’m not sure why we think UDFAs are 100% about the money and us throwing money means we got the best ones. Sure, all things equal, get what you can get, an agent/player are looking to stick with a team. I got into a back and forth with someone in here about this when we signed UDFAs after the draft and ended the discussion with the below.

Just look at Coker last year, do you really think he signed with the Panthers for the most money and not because our WRs sucked? He got a $25k bonus and $225k  guaranteed. Thats nice and all but what did Coker get by being able to make the team and stick for year 2+? He got $795k for 2024 and $960k for 2025.

The UDFA guarantees are nice but the top UDFA players are absolutely 100% trying to find the best team fit. Again, talking about the guys who have the ability to make the 53, not guys who are jumping at any offer they can get. Making the team as a UDFA gets you 4-5x the initial money.

We offered him the most UDFA money so yeah it was 100% about the money

[WhoKnows]

1 minute ago, kungfoodude said:

I don't think it will make a HUGE difference because of the low hit rate but it is a great way to tilt the scale in your favor when it comes to signing.

Makes me wonder if eventually the NFL owners will get mad and tighten the rules on UDFA contracts.

It won’t. The top UDFAs aren’t caring about the extra $20k or $40k that Tepper is giving out when selecting the right team and making the team gets you $800k for year 1 and maybe even more year 2+.

[mrcompletely11]

Just now, WhoKnows said:

It won’t. The top UDFAs aren’t caring about the extra $20k or $40k that Tepper is giving out when selecting the right team and making the team gets you $800k for year 1 and maybe even more year 2+.

the odds of making the team are akin to winning the lottery, they are going to take the money 10 times out of 10

[WhoKnows]

2 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

We offered him the most UDFA money so yeah it was 100% about the money

Seriously? You actually think Coker signed with us for the money? Dude made the team easily and got a 2 year deal that dwarfed the UDFA money.

Sorry, but you are smoking crack if you think that Coker and his agent weren’t looking at the Panthers are the easiest team to make the 53. It was and he got a two year deal on May 10th. That’s how easy it was for him to make the 53, he got a contract during OTAs.

[mrcompletely11]

Just now, WhoKnows said:

Seriously? You actually think Coker signed with us for the money? Dude made the team easily and got a 2 year deal that dwarfed the UDFA money.

Sorry, but you are smoking crack if you think that Coker and his agent weren’t looking at the Panthers are the easiest team to make the 53. It was and he got a two year deal on May 10th. That’s how easy it was for him to make the 53, he got a contract during OTAs.

I mean you can believe what you want but we offered him far and away the most money

 

The Panthers entered the draft needing to acquire multiple receivers. It explains why they made Coker one of the highest-paid undrafted players. They signed Coker to a deal that contained a $25,000 signing bonus with $225,000 in salary guarantees, according to ESPN. It’s more money than some late-round draft picks make. It signals how badly Morgan wanted to add Coker to his roster and it should improve his chances of making the team.

[WhoKnows]

1 minute ago, mrcompletely11 said:

the odds of making the team are akin to winning the lottery, they are going to take the money 10 times out of 10

Lol, that is so wrong. “The money” as you said is under $100k difference. Coker’s agent got him a $1.8M extension during OTAs.

Below’s a quote I found. It’s dark, but it says 20%, not exactly lottery odds. Not all last the whole year but each team is still adding a couple/few every year. For “good” UDFAs, they will take the money but they are 100% going to teams where they think they can make the roster. Making the roster is life changing money.

In 2016, 117 of 590 undrafted free agents (19.8 percent) made a Week 1 roster or injured reserve, and another 125 (21.2 percent) made a practice squad, according to the NFL Players Association.

[WhoKnows]

7 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

I mean you can believe what you want but we offered him far and away the most money

 

The Panthers entered the draft needing to acquire multiple receivers. It explains why they made Coker one of the highest-paid undrafted players. They signed Coker to a deal that contained a $25,000 signing bonus with $225,000 in salary guarantees, according to ESPN. It’s more money than some late-round draft picks make. It signals how badly Morgan wanted to add Coker to his roster and it should improve his chances of making the team.

And why did we offer him the most money? Because our WRs sucked and he and his agent knew it. Agents aren’t going to say no, but making the team as a UDFA isn’t akin to lottery odds as you said and he and his agent got $1.8M in OTAs. That was their goal. $225k is peanuts compared to Coker’s likely lifelong Panthers income and if he went to a team with a stocked WR corps for $250k, he would have screwed up.

I don’t know why this is even up for debate. His agent got him $1.8M over 2 years by OTAs because it was the easiest roster for a good UDFA WR to make. All things equal, take the extra $20k if offered but our situation is absolutely why he signed here not an extra $20-40k. Having an easy road to $1.8M (and more) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a new Camry.

[KillerKat]

Some people are looking way too much into this. More money doesnt mean they will make the team. Its just a drop in the hat in the grand scheme of things. They still gotta beat who is in front of them.

[PNW_PantherMan]

David Tepper while he's handing out fat UDFA guarantees

 

[Ship]

This is good for building our reputation with UDFAs. Agents will know we are one of the, if not THE, highest paying teams for their client. Money, guaranteed especially, matters to UDFAs who have very short career outlooks. We will absolutely have an advantage over other teams because of the money, and when we're in a bidding war we are likely to win it. It's def a good thing for us on many levels.