Adam Theilen said he came back to play with Bryce, and he expects the Panthers to surprise some people

[LinvilleGorge]

Bully? LOLOLOL

Nice victim turn.

Of all the issues facing the Panthers in the Tepper era getting hung up on an aging WR making mid-tier money who has performed as expected while being forced into a role he's no longer cut out for is weird. No one is trying to argue that Thielen is an elite caliber WR at this point in his career and I think virtually everyone accepts that the whole situation was a result of poor roster building and over-reliance on young, unproven talent. But to pin that all on Adam Thielen? I mean, yeah it's flat out bizarre.

[TD alt]

Ahh, I see why this thread has more lives than Elvis: Still going on about Thielen, after we drafted Nalo and X and Lil Jimmy and acquired a promising UDFA in Jalen Coker, and topped it all off with a good vereran receiver hunting a career resurgence after an unfortunate sickness in Hunter Renfrow. Well, there is the period of June and July where we have to manufacture nothing-burgers to fill that football void in our hungry stomachs.

[frankw]

3 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Bully? LOLOLOL

Nice victim turn.

Of all the issues facing the Panthers in the Tepper era getting hung up on an aging WR making mid-tier money who has performed as expected while being forced into a role he's no longer cut out for is weird. No one is trying to argue that Thielen is an elite caliber WR at this point in his career and I think virtually everyone accepts that the whole situation was a result of poor roster building and over-reliance on young, unproven talent. But to pin that all on Adam Thielen? I mean, yeah it's flat out bizarre.

Yet you keep coming back here running to his defense. He has a wife already doesn't he?????

[LinvilleGorge]

18 minutes ago, frankw said:

Yet you keep coming back here running to his defense. He has a wife already doesn't he?????

It's a message board. Discussion is what it's meant for. How does this require explaining?

I'm not "running to his defense" as much as I'm pointing out that your take is dumb and you should feel bad for it.

Like I said before, you're the equivalent of a failing business blaming your top sales rep who while not putting up stellar numbers is still your top guy and is meeting expectations all the while seemingly giving everyone else in the organization a pass to focus on one of the few things that isn't abjectly broken. Adam Thielen is the least of the Panthers' issues. That's the whole point. You're missing the forest for the small bush. You're blaming an aging WR with a mid-level contract for not being a good #1 when he was brought here to be a veteran presence and solid #3. That's not an Adam Thielen problem. You're blaming the wrong entity.

[frankw]

10 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

It's a message board. Discussion is what it's meant for. How does this require explaining?

I'm not "running to his defense" as much as I'm pointing out that your take is dumb and you should feel bad for it.

Like I said before, you're the equivalent of a failing business blaming your top sales rep who while not putting up stellar numbers is still your top guy and is meeting expectations all the while seemingly giving everyone else in the organization a pass to focus on one of the few things that isn't abjectly broken. Adam Thielen is the least of the Panthers' issues. That's the whole point. You're missing the forest for the small bush. You're blaming an aging WR with a mid-level contract for not being a good #1 when he was brought here to be a veteran presence and solid #3. That's not an Adam Thielen problem. You're blaming the wrong entity.

We can't ever reach an end to this conversation because you keep reverting back to a perceived view that I am "blaming" him. For what exactly? Losing? That's not true.

I am where CRA is on this. Correctly acknowledging Thielen's clear limitations and our clear past emphasis on trying to build a passing offense around him that resulted in the literal worst ranked passing offense is the result of decisions made by the front office. Any "blame" lies there. I do not blame Adam Thielen for taking the money and milking it for all it's worth. Twice. Again. That's on our front office. All I can do is hope that Canales is planning on throwing everything he can at the young receivers. It is critical we do not waste the opportunity for their development in what will in all likelihood be another losing season barring a miracle.

Ultimately I get the sense your hardline position and unwillingness to let this go to the point you are repeatedly talking about lack of IQ and calling people dumb (very familiar behavior in this day and age) is being fueled by past conversations in other subforums. As such this only continues to get uglier. So there's no need to go any further.

[Icege]

On 7/19/2025 at 12:03 PM, LinvilleGorge said:

I get what you're saying but I'm a proponent of drafting the best players and then getting them into camp and figuring out where they fit. Passing a better player for a better "fit" just isn't a good idea. That's how you end up drafting Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan because you already had Clyde Drexler on the roster.

For a moment I thought you were talking about Michael Jordan the football player and I got so irrationally angry thinking about him starting until I got to Clyde Drexler.

Edited July 20 by Icege

[CRA]

On 7/19/2025 at 11:33 AM, Icege said:

It looks like the team agrees with you to some extent: TMac and Jimmy Horn Jr both provide a dynamic X as well as a slot, which allows XL to be the Z which might be a better fit for him. Ja'Tavion Sanders was drafted for his receiving chops as a TE. Jonathon Brooks was one of the better pass catching RBs in his draft class.

I don't think Ladd makes any sense because the team had several slot WRs already and he's never going to be a perimeter guy which was what the team had lacked Bryce's rookie year. Adam Thielen was already signed as well.

Ladd does make much more sense than throwing away Andy Dalton in the name of "competition" though, I'll give you that.

I mean, if you spent the farm on Bryce Young and believed in him....Ladd makes way more sense than XL and an aging out AT shouldn't prohibit you from building a future that makes sense IMO.  Ladd basically gets a year of mentoring from AT (not that he needed it)....and then you don't have to overpay AT to take up space in the slot because you got nothing else proven. 

[Icege]

4 hours ago, CRA said:

I mean, if you spent the farm on Bryce Young and believed in him....Ladd makes way more sense than XL and an aging out AT shouldn't prohibit you from building a future that makes sense IMO.  Ladd basically gets a year of mentoring from AT (not that he needed it)....and then you don't have to overpay AT to take up space in the slot because you got nothing else proven. 

I'm all for having developed Ladd under AT last season, but that still doesn't address WR1/WR2. Even if we add Diontae to that mix still, who is the other WR? I'd rather give AT the $9M and draft XL than pay DJ Chark (or Diontae Johnson) and draft Ladd, especially when drafting Ladd doesn't give the team a deep threat to take the top off of a defense like XL does.

[CRA]

35 minutes ago, Icege said:

I'm all for having developed Ladd under AT last season, but that still doesn't address WR1/WR2. Even if we add Diontae to that mix still, who is the other WR? I'd rather give AT the $9M and draft XL than pay DJ Chark (or Diontae Johnson) and draft Ladd, especially when drafting Ladd doesn't give the team a deep threat to take the top off of a defense like XL does.

they drafted Tmac this year.   

Bryce's natural play style is going to trend to a Ladd type not the vertical game.  So why wouldn't your build your team to your QBs strength fixate on being strong there.   

We drafted Tmac this year.  So you got Ladd in the slot.  Now you got that AT money to spent on the outside across from Tmac.  

That's my whole, random parts thing.  I feel Bryce Young fits 1 thing, Dave's always fit a different game (and that basically plays out). 

So my naturally stance despite not being a huge Bryce guy is either go all in on him (which they never did).....or go all in on Dave (which isn't Bryce's style).  I'm fine either way. It's the in-between I don't like. 

[Panthers Fan 69]

Only the huddle will turn a positive thread  into a bitching match about a good WR wanting to help out his team win. 

[Icege]

1 hour ago, CRA said:

they drafted Tmac this year.   

Bryce's natural play style is going to trend to a Ladd type not the vertical game.  So why wouldn't your build your team to your QBs strength fixate on being strong there.   

We drafted Tmac this year.  So you got Ladd in the slot.  Now you got that AT money to spent on the outside across from Tmac.  

That's my whole, random parts thing.  I feel Bryce Young fits 1 thing, Dave's always fit a different game (and that basically plays out). 

So my naturally stance despite not being a huge Bryce guy is either go all in on him (which they never did).....or go all in on Dave (which isn't Bryce's style).  I'm fine either way. It's the in-between I don't like. 

Ah, I see. You're saying he's just a short game guy... but wouldn't the team still have needed a deep threat to keep those safeties from creeping down like they were when Reich/Brown had him dinking and dunking? Who from this list is preventing that from happening last season? David Moore? Then what about this season? Darius Slayton?

I'm not saying that weren't better moves to have been made, but I don't think that AT is the half-in, half-out mindset as suggested. He came in under Reich, was a dependable veteran for a rookie HC that has a background with WRs, and is now set to make $2M less than the aforementioned Darius Slayton. What I am saying I guess is that when stepping back and looking at all of the available data points, the Adam Thielen signing was one of the few moves that this team has made that has worked out.

Going to be fun seeing if Jimmy Horn Jr can contribute right away as that quick-twitch slot guy the team has been looking for. I don't see Thielen playing the entire season, so the sooner Jimmy picks things up the better.

[CRA]

19 minutes ago, Icege said:

Ah, I see. You're saying he's just a short game guy... but wouldn't the team still have needed a deep threat to keep those safeties from creeping down like they were when Reich/Brown had him dinking and dunking? Who from this list is preventing that from happening last season? David Moore? Then what about this season? Darius Slayton?

I'm not saying that weren't better moves to have been made, but I don't think that AT is the half-in, half-out mindset as suggested. He came in under Reich, was a dependable veteran for a rookie HC that has a background with WRs, and is now set to make $2M less than the aforementioned Darius Slayton. What I am saying I guess is that when stepping back and looking at all of the available data points, the Adam Thielen signing was one of the few moves that this team has made that has worked out.

Going to be fun seeing if Jimmy Horn Jr can contribute right away as that quick-twitch slot guy the team has been looking for. I don't see Thielen playing the entire season, so the sooner Jimmy picks things up the better.

Yeah, at no point did I say he can only throw short and talk in weird absolutes.  

we clearly sort of found ourselves in a weird spot IMO.   Never all in on a vision that made sense.  Half way moved on from Bryce after year one.   Living in a random parts word and wanting it to work together.  Not my ideal why to go about it.  

It’s trying to manifest Bryce into fitting a non ideal scenario/team for him.  

[Basbear]

[Candler Cat]

1 hour ago, Panthers Fan 69 said:

Only the huddle will turn a positive thread  into a bitching match about a good WR wanting to help out his team win. 

Yeah, he signed already

Nuttindoaboutit