Two Athletic articles about QBs

[PanthersATL]

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6602281/2025/09/11/nfl-backup-qb-inside-mentorship-jimmy-garoppolo/

Life as a backup NFL QB is a mental and emotional whirlwind by our old Panthers friend Jourdan Rodrigue. It doesn't mention Dalton, but it gives a better idea of what Dalton's role has been in working with Bryce and what the QB like is like week-by-week. 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6584516/2025/09/02/nfl-first-round-quarterback-busts/

The bust files: How NFL teams break young quarterbacks 
 

Quote

Finding that answer — a franchise quarterback — remains job No. 1 for anyone in charge of an NFL roster. Heading into that 2023 draft, Ballard was essentially staring at an ultimatum handed down by Irsay: take a QB or else. If Richardson hadn’t been available at No. 4, Irsay later admitted, the Colts would have taken Kentucky’s Will Levis, simply because he was the next QB on their board. Levis instead fell to the second round, was benched after 20 starts in Tennessee and lost his job to top pick Cam Ward this spring.

“I think teams get too afraid of passing on a guy they think could be special,” says Hall of Famer Peyton Manning, who spent his first 14 seasons in Indianapolis. “Even if he’s not a fit for them or he’s not ready or if there’s not a great chance it’s going to work out, they’re still gonna draft him high so they can tell their fans, ‘Hey, at least we tried.'

Quote

O’Connell, in the midst of a season in which he’d be named the NFL’s Coach of the Year, to offer a biting assessment last fall on “The Rich Eisen Show”: “I believe organizations fail young quarterbacks before young quarterbacks fail organizations.”

Peyton Manning goes on to have comments about Bryce:

Quote

“I hate it,” Manning says. “Teams draft these guys without a plan. They all say they have one, then the kid ends up playing for three coordinators his first two seasons … It’s like a young couple thinking about bringing a baby into the world. If you’re not sure you’re ready, just don’t do it.”
Take the last two drafts, Manning says. Chicago’s Caleb Williams and Carolina’s Bryce Young, the No. 1 picks in 2024 and 2023, respectively, enter this season on their second head coach — third if you count interims — and third play caller. So far, all they know in the NFL is turnover.
“I just wish a team would admit, ‘OK, we need a quarterback this year, but we’re not 100 percent sure our coach is the right guy, so we’re not gonna bring him into this,'” Manning continues. “Of course, they always draft the quarterback.
“Those teams were not ready,” he says of the Bears and Panthers. “That’s just how I feel.”

Quote

Bill Parcells, the Hall of Famer who coached four NFL teams, once put it this way: “You wanna know if you’ve got the right guy at quarterback? Don’t watch him after he throws three touchdowns and wins you the game. Watch him after he throws three interceptions and loses it.”

Quote

As for who to blame, Aikman starts at the top. Bad owners hire stubborn coaches, sabotaging young quarterbacks from the beginning.
“A lot of times these owners don’t even know what they should be looking for in a coach,” he says. “And if you don’t have the right head coach and the right offensive coordinator, you’re not giving the quarterback a real chance.”

Quote

O’Connell says. It’s on the GM to ensure there’s a veteran quarterback on the roster. It’s on the veteran quarterback to show the rookie what each workday should look like. It’s on the position coach to teach him how to diagnose film. It’s on the coordinator to make sure he’s not overwhelmed in training camp.
Then, O’Connell says, comes the most essential part: coaching them through failure.
“I’ve thought a lot about this,” he says. “And I’ve realized the most important part of a quarterback’s development is when it doesn’t go right. When there are growing pains, when there are struggles, that’s when you have to buckle up and put on your big-boy pants as a coach. You have to have a clear-cut plan on how you’re going to improve: what film to watch, what drills to do, how to measure progress, even if it’s really small.

 

[Proudiddy]

Except Reich showed what he could do with a guy like Luck.  You can’t always make chicken salad out of chicken poo.

This seems pretty self-serving…. Maybe some early campaigning and excuse making for Arch from Peyton.  Because on the flip side, the argument has to be made, either a guy has it, or they don’t.  Even with turnover and bad coaching, you see enough flashes of greatness that you know “this guy is going to be good.”  Bryce doesn’t have that.

[mrcompletely11]

As far as having a plan for bryce, in reichs defense, he wanted to sit young but was overridden.  Reich isnt some McVay level genius but he is a competent nfl coach if the owners would leave him alone

[Waldo]

Plenty of young QBs go to bad teams. That doesn't mean the QB isn't also part of the problem. Baker played well for the Browns but Baker had a Baker problem. Getting sent to the Panthers and enduring that hell sure appears to have motivated him. Teddy and Sam were always backup level guys who kept getting shots due to limited supply but the supporting cast does effect their effectiveness. Winston will always be goofy turnover machine but we he looks like a good option you know you are in QB hell. AR was always going to break and it was well talked about. D Jones looks much better with an offensive line but for how long. How about the 49ers ruined Lance when Purdy made it from thr other side of the draft? 

Said it before. I don't fear trading Young inside the NFCS. If he has succes agaisnt you then just fire the DC on the spot because that’s a bottom D. Even as a backup I don't think he can come in and win a game. Just more excuses from people not watching him play.

[kungfoodude]

I am not saying that a chunk of this isn't true but some of these guys still thrive in less than stellar situations and then become serviceable or elite. 

So, an element of this is on the player too. Perhaps the team isn't developing you enough but are you putting in the work on your own? Are you trying to excel constantly? I think that comes down to internal versus external motivation. All of these truly great players seem to have an elite internal motivation to be great. 

I am doubtful that is Bryce. He seems like more of a standard "cog in the machine" guy.

[kungfoodude]

5 minutes ago, Waldo said:

Plenty of young QBs go to bad teams. That doesn't mean the QB isn't also part of the problem. Baker played well for the Browns but Baker had a Baker problem. Getting sent to the Panthers and enduring that hell sure appears to have motivated him. Teddy and Sam were always backup level guys who kept getting shots due to limited supply but the supporting cast does effect their effectiveness. Winston will always be goofy turnover machine but we he looks like a good option you know you are in QB hell. AR was always going to break and it was well talked about. D Jones looks much better with an offensive line but for how long. How about the 49ers ruined Lance when Purdy made it from thr other side of the draft? 

Said it before. I don't fear trading Young inside the NFCS. If he has succes agaisnt you then just fire the DC on the spot because that’s a bottom D. Even as a backup I don't think he can come in and win a game. Just more excuses from people not watching him play.

I still maintain Baker was not the issue in Cleveland. Cleveland was just extremely stupid to pine after a guy like Watson when Baker was wildly successful by Cleveland QB standards.

I will say that Baker's later success does show how terrible the Panthers are as an organization. We had the likely long term answer on a cheap deal but we dropped the ball completely pining after Bryce Young. Unreal.

Edited 6 hours ago by kungfoodude

[CanadianCat]

Yeah, and...

NFL stands for NOT FOR LONG and that applies to coaches and GM's. If your a coach that has a bad team and is on the hot seat, you are not going to say that you are going to build the roster and NEXT year draft the QB (unless you are the Steelers) You draft the QB this year and that likely buys you an extra year before getting fired. 

The NFL is a instant gratification sport. Some teams (very few) take the long term, approach but even that doesnt always work. 

Ultimately its down to the player. We had a crap team and drafted Newton and we were instantly competitive. We drafted Young (whom I still support) and it seems we need to built a team around him. 

Frank did have a plan. Hell we had the most expensive coaching roster in the NFL. Everyone was singing our praises about the supports we put in place. Yet on game day there is only one person behind center. 

[CRA]

2 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I still maintain Baker was not the issue in Cleveland. Cleveland was just extremely stupid to pine after a guy like Watson when Baker was wildly successful by Cleveland QB standards.

I will say that Baker's later success does show how terrible the Panthers are as an organization. We had the likely long term answer on a cheap deal but we dropped the ball completely pining after Bryce Young. Unreal.

I think if the Panthers signed Baker and just let Baker be our QB....things would have worked out better than than it did.  We signed Baker, then didn't let him be our QB.  He "competed" all preseason w/ Sam.  He never got the work he needed going in.  It was never his team. 

[Waldo]

6 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I still maintain Baker was not the issue in Cleveland. Cleveland was just extremely stupid to pine after a guy like Watson when Baker was wildly successful by Cleveland QB standards.

I will say that Baker's later success does show how terrible the Panthers are as an organization. We had the likely long term answer on a cheap deal but we dropped the ball completely pining after Bryce Young. Unreal.

Baker's ego after his rookie year was a problem. He showed up here with it dented but we killed that for him. 

The rest I agree with. 

Edited 6 hours ago by Waldo

[CRA]

3 minutes ago, CanadianCat said:

Yeah, and...

NFL stands for NOT FOR LONG and that applies to coaches and GM's. If your a coach that has a bad team and is on the hot seat, you are not going to say that you are going to build the roster and NEXT year draft the QB (unless you are the Steelers) You draft the QB this year and that likely buys you an extra year before getting fired. 

The NFL is a instant gratification sport. Some teams (very few) take the long term, approach but even that doesnt always work. 

Ultimately its down to the player. We had a crap team and drafted Newton and we were instantly competitive. We drafted Young (whom I still support) and it seems we need to built a team around him. 

Frank did have a plan. Hell we had the most expensive coaching roster in the NFL. Everyone was singing our praises about the supports we put in place. Yet on game day there is only one person behind center. 

Frank to me was an offensive variant of Fox and Rivera.  Frank being as bad as he was, wasn't because of Frank.  It was a front office who didn't give him the basic blocks he needed to be the boring middle of the pack coach he was. 

when Frank's folks started going on TV and lobbying for what a Frank QB was going into the draft......that was the first warning flag.  One day, years from now, like with all dysfunctional teams we will find out who actually stood on what side of the Bryce decisions before the company line of we "all agreed on Bryce" came out. 

[mav1234]

I think the vast majority of QBs only thrive or die based on their situations. But some are capable of making everyone else around them better in a way they redefine, or at least elevate, those situations. And some of the former group also just never will really have "it" when the moment matters.

So far it feels like Bryce either needs the perfect situation or he just doesn't have "it". I suppose we'll get the season to see if that changes, but to call me skeptical is an understatement. 

[kungfoodude]

6 minutes ago, CRA said:

I think if the Panthers signed Baker and just let Baker be our QB....things would have worked out better than than it did.  We signed Baker, then didn't let him be our QB.  He "competed" all preseason w/ Sam.  He never got the work he needed going in.  It was never his team. 

Agreed. I think they never seriously considered him an option even though he was/is miles better than Darnold. 

4 minutes ago, Waldo said:

Baker's ego after his rookie year was a problem. He showed up here with it dented but we killed that for him. 

The rest I agree with. 

I think the ego stuff was massively overplayed. He was played for the Browns, a disaster organization, and he accomplished more than they have in years. He came here to another diaster organization that happened to be worse than Cleveland and he didn't succeed. But, how could he? Frankly, who the fug could?

I think our general fanbase really underestimates how terrible this organization truly is. It can nuke anyone. 

poo, you see how Stroud is struggling with a damn good Texans team? Can you imagine how bad he would be here in our circumstances?? He can thank his lucky stars we made the choice we did.

[kungfoodude]

15 minutes ago, CanadianCat said:

Yeah, and...

NFL stands for NOT FOR LONG and that applies to coaches and GM's. If your a coach that has a bad team and is on the hot seat, you are not going to say that you are going to build the roster and NEXT year draft the QB (unless you are the Steelers) You draft the QB this year and that likely buys you an extra year before getting fired. 

The NFL is a instant gratification sport. Some teams (very few) take the long term, approach but even that doesnt always work. 

Ultimately its down to the player. We had a crap team and drafted Newton and we were instantly competitive. We drafted Young (whom I still support) and it seems we need to built a team around him. 

Frank did have a plan. Hell we had the most expensive coaching roster in the NFL. Everyone was singing our praises about the supports we put in place. Yet on game day there is only one person behind center. 

I would push back on the idea that Newton came into a dumpster fire. He came into a team with solid bones/talent that needed a retool, which we did. I promise you, had we plopped prime Cam into the mess that was our organization that Bryce arrived into, we certainly still wouldn't be talking about playoffs. Far better results, no doubt, but that is an easy bar to clear.

 

[Waldo]

8 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Agreed. I think they never seriously considered him an option even though he was/is miles better than Darnold. 

I think the ego stuff was massively overplayed. He was played for the Browns, a disaster organization, and he accomplished more than they have in years. He came here to another diaster organization that happened to be worse than Cleveland and he didn't succeed. But, how could he? Frankly, who the fug could?

I think our general fanbase really underestimates how terrible this organization truly is. It can nuke anyone. 

poo, you see how Stroud is struggling with a damn good Texans team? Can you imagine how bad he would be here in our circumstances?? He can thank his lucky stars we made the choice we did.

I disagree. He showered up to the Panthers still a diva thst was brought in to save Rhule and be a franchise QB. He left how he is now in Tampa. He had a huge ego in Cleveland and it's documented how bad it was. 

Both can be true and would explain why someone that talented looked so bad here. Even Sam had a resurgence under Wilks when they switched to small ball with running being the first option vs be a franchise QB and save us that was Rhule's MO. Scared straight if you will.

Edited 5 hours ago by Waldo