Official Week 3: Panthers vs. Falcons Gameday Thread

[frankw]

20 minutes ago, Loyalty4Life said:

Comparing a random stat to another rookie QB has nothing to do with the current subject.  Tom Brady had a 6.0 YPA his rookie year.  I hope you're not using one stat to define success of a QB?

You're seriously pivoting to the GOAT? I am howling!

[Basbear]

Me re-watching the game= 

[Loyalty4Life]

9 minutes ago, frankw said:

You're seriously pivoting to the GOAT? I am howling!

Yes, but the point went easily over your head.  Brady had 1 pass for 6 yards his rookie year.  See how stupid the comparison in regards to using one stat to decide if a QB is good or not.

 

[Loyalty4Life]

32 minutes ago, electro's horse said:

Cam ward is a starting qb.

Which is it?

It's starting QB's.  I should have been more clear.  I was more referring to Clausen.  I thought common sense would tell us that Cam Ward isn't a good comparison yet because he has only played 3 games.  

I mean, we can, but with a sample size that small it doesn't really tell us anything and definitely doesn't answer the question of if Ward is or will be a successful NFL QB.

 

[strato]

6 minutes ago, Loyalty4Life said:

Yes, but the point went easily over your head.  Brady had 1 pass for 6 yards his rookie year.  See how stupid the comparison in regards to using one stat to decide if a QB is good or not.

 

You can look at them and dissect them pretty well with just your eyes.

And if my eyes tell me something, no stat will change my mind. Only the player will do that. 

[frankw]

12 minutes ago, Loyalty4Life said:

Yes, but the point went easily over your head.  Brady had 1 pass for 6 yards his rookie year.  See how stupid the comparison in regards to using one stat to decide if a QB is good or not.

At this juncture I don't think you have a point that doesn't involve going to any lengths possible to portray Bryce Young as anything but one of the worst busts of all time.

Brady for his career had 7.4 YPA. The top 20 in all time list for YPA hovers at an average of around 7.7.

Bryce Young for his career so far is lower than Joey Harrington. Feel free to go find where Harrington is in that list buddy. Good talking to ya.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_yds_per_att_career.htm

[electro's horse]

Brady also played the first six years of his career before they opened up the passing rules. 

imagine Bryce trying to play in 2001. 

[Loyalty4Life]

21 hours ago, frankw said:

At this juncture I don't think you have a point that doesn't involve going to any lengths possible to portray Bryce Young as anything but one of the worst busts of all time.

Brady for his career had 7.4 YPA. The top 20 in all time list for YPA hovers at an average of around 7.7.

Bryce Young for his career so far is lower than Joey Harrington. Feel free to go find where Harrington is in that list buddy. Good talking to ya.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_yds_per_att_career.htm

 

I was never comparing Brady to Bryce.  I used his first year stat for YPA to show it's a stupid comparison because Brady only had 1 pass for 6 yards in his rookie year.  It was a clear example of my point (at least for some people), that taking a single stat and using that to say player A was better than player B.

Further, the original discussion was my claim that many people do expect Bryce to be more like Cam in terms of success for a 1st overall pick and that where a player is drafted ultimately doesn't matter.

You must have forgotten to take your meds as you responded with YPA of Clausen and Ward which has nothing at all, whatsoever, to do with fans expectation of a player solely due to his draft slot.  

And yet, you continue to throw random stats to continue a separate conversation that doesn't exist.  I go to great lengths to try to be accurate.  That's is why it's always been my argument that Bryce with Canales as his head coach and actual weapons around him, should be given the time to grow and improve. 

If he succeeds and shows he can be a franchise QB then he'll earn an extension.  If not, he won't be here and I have no issue with that.  It's very possible that he will end up a career back up but no one should make that declaration after 13 games.

Even if you don't agree, which is fine, I think you could actually understand why I feel that way.  It's not a hard case to make that his first year included horrible coaching, oline, surrounding talent, defense, or run solid run game.  No one should or could be accurately judged in those circumstances.  That doesn't mean you might not turn out to be right and it doesn't mean I don't think Bryce had a ton of things to work on.  He does but I'm not so myopic in my thinking that I also can't see what he has done well and what skills he brings to the position.


   

[frankw]

2 minutes ago, Loyalty4Life said:

 

I was never comparing Brady to Bryce.  I used his first year stat for YPA to show it's a stupid comparison because Brady only had 1 pass for 6 yards in his rookie year.  It was a clear example of my point (at least for some people), that taking a single stat and using that to say player A was better than player B.

Further, the original discussion was my claim that many people do expect Bryce to be more like Cam in terms of success for a 1st overall pick and that where a player is drafted ultimately doesn't matter.

You must have forgotten to take your meds as you responded with YPA of Clausen and Ward which has nothing at all, whatsoever, to do with fans expectation of a player solely due to his draft slot.  

And yet, you continue to throw random stats to continue a separate conversation that doesn't exist.  I go to great lengths to try to be accurate.  That's is why it's always been my argument that Bryce with Canales as his head coach and actual weapons around him, should be given the time to grow and improve. 

If he succeeds and shows he can be a franchise QB then he'll earn an extension.  If not, he won't be here and I have no issue with that.  It's very possible that he will end up a career back up but no one should make that declaration after 13 games.

Even if you don't agree, which is fine, I think you could actually understand why I feel that way.  It's not a hard case to make that his first year included horrible coaching, oline, surrounding talent, defense, or run solid run game.  No one should or could be accurately judged in those circumstances.  That doesn't mean you might not turn out to be right and it doesn't mean I don't think Bryce had a ton of things to work on.  He does but I'm not so myopic in my thinking that I also can't see what he has done well and what skills he brings to the position.

Bryce Young was billed as a generational talent before the draft. It is not up for debate that in the NFL much more often than not he lacks big play ability in general. We have seen a few instances here and there but the problem is that has only come when he has had really great protection across entire games. And he needs that in order to both see the field but also attempt those downfield passes. He has to put everything into it because he lacks those physical tools. He can't just flick a pass deep off his back foot or off balance to say the least.

At this point I do not care what Bryce does or doesn't do the rest of the season. This has nothing to do with personal feelings or how nice someone is. This is about what is best for the team. If we are a serious franchise we will bring in another young quarterback from the upcoming draft and let him and Bryce duke it out in camp. That's all there is to it.

[Loyalty4Life]

22 hours ago, strato said:

You can look at them and dissect them pretty well with just your eyes.

And if my eyes tell me something, no stat will change my mind. Only the player will do that. 

So, you never make been wrong about a player?  Could you tell Mike Jackson was going to be this good for us based on his play for Seattle?

Are you batting 1000% in picking where players are drafted?

My eyes told me that Bryce threw the ball into the stands on the 4th down inside the red zone against the Jags.  It looked like a horrible mistake and he panicked but then in the press conference after the game Canales admitted that the receiver ran the wrong route and Bryce was throwing to the back pylon.

Your eyes (and humans in general) are one of the very worst sources for reality.  It's in our nature.   

Even my cousin Vinny knows that.

[Loyalty4Life]

1 minute ago, frankw said:

Bryce Young was billed as a generational talent before the draft. It is not up for debate that in the NFL much more often than not he lacks big play ability in general. We have seen a few instances here and there but the problem is that has only come when he has had really great protection across entire games. And he needs that in order to both see the field but also attempt those downfield passes. He has to put everything into it because he lacks those physical tools. He can't just flick a pass deep off his back foot or off balance to say the least.

At this point I do not care what Bryce does or doesn't do the rest of the season. This has nothing to do with personal feelings or how nice someone is. This is about what is best for the team. If we are a serious franchise we will bring in another young quarterback from the upcoming draft and let him and Bryce duke it out in camp. That's all there is to it.

I don't care what he was billed as.  That's media and fan bs.  

I completely agree that, like all QB's, Bryce has things he does very well, things he needs to improve and things he is horrible at.  You're right, he can't just flick his wrist and throw it 60 yards.  He will never throw a pass like Calab Williams did last week or big arm QB's can do.  That's a limitation he does have but he can throw just fine, without having to put everything into it, ie the 43 yard throw to Tetairoa (which he dropped).  There are plenty of very successful Qb's now and in the past who can't throw 60 yards off their back foot. 

No matter what video or stat is shared with you, you've shown you don't want or can't hear it.  You'll find some excuse to say why that doesn't matter, over and over. 

If you really don't care I'd expect a lot less bitching about him.

I agree with you that we should absolutely bring in competition for Bryce.  I think not having a capable backup or competition is a mistake.  Dalton can get you a game or two but it doesn't matter if you love or hate Bryce.  There is nothing realistic behind him.

At least, can both agree we love the Panthers and want the team to succeed?  

[frankw]

7 minutes ago, Loyalty4Life said:

I don't care what he was billed as.  That's media and fan bs.  

I completely agree that, like all QB's, Bryce has things he does very well, things he needs to improve and things he is horrible at.  You're right, he can't just flick his wrist and throw it 60 yards.  He will never throw a pass like Calab Williams did last week or big arm QB's can do.  That's a limitation he does have but he can throw just fine, without having to put everything into it, ie the 43 yard throw to Tetairoa (which he dropped).  There are plenty of very successful Qb's now and in the past who can't throw 60 yards off their back foot. 

No matter what video or stat is shared with you, you've shown you don't want or can't hear it.  You'll find some excuse to say why that doesn't matter, over and over. 

If you really don't care I'd expect a lot less bitching about him.

I agree with you that we should absolutely bring in competition for Bryce.  I think not having a capable backup or competition is a mistake.  Dalton can get you a game or two but it doesn't matter if you love or hate Bryce.  There is nothing realistic behind him.

At least, can both agree we love the Panthers and want the team to succeed?  

He isn't a mid or late round pick. It still matters no matter how much you might not want it to. That comes with the territory of the position.

Absolutely. I want the Panthers to return to relevancy and be competitive for the division and the postseason again. And the team should be willing to do whatever is necessary in order to achieve that personal feelings or relationships aside.

[mrcompletely11]

34 minutes ago, frankw said:

Bryce Young was billed as a generational talent before the draft. It is not up for debate that in the NFL much more often than not he lacks big play ability in general. We have seen a few instances here and there but the problem is that has only come when he has had really great protection across entire games. And he needs that in order to both see the field but also attempt those downfield passes. He has to put everything into it because he lacks those physical tools. He can't just flick a pass deep off his back foot or off balance to say the least.

At this point I do not care what Bryce does or doesn't do the rest of the season. This has nothing to do with personal feelings or how nice someone is. This is about what is best for the team. If we are a serious franchise we will bring in another young quarterback from the upcoming draft and let him and Bryce duke it out in camp. That's all there is to it.

Brother Bryce is either here 5 more years, 2 more years or simply traded.  If the team even sniffs the idea he needs competition to get better then he is done.  Bryce has run out of runway.   I suspect Morgan and company are going to go all in with Bryce unless he completely imploded.   

[frankw]

21 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Brother Bryce is either here 5 more years, 2 more years or simply traded.  If the team even sniffs the idea he needs competition to get better then he is done.  Bryce has run out of runway.   I suspect Morgan and company are going to go all in with Bryce unless he completely imploded.   

Unfortunately we just can't put anything past the powers that be currently. Just when we think they are gaining some semblance of competency they do the opposite of what we think is logical and the fans suffer for it. We'll see.