Thielen update

[frankw]

29 minutes ago, Navy_football said:

So who's throwing a 60 yards hail mary from a dirty pocket? You getting real carried away right now. Every NFL QB isn't Superman (Cam Newton). 

This is wading into waters that will rustle jimmies. Ultimately if you are a QB needy team that hasn't had a winning season in near a decade you start with a guy who has the necessary physical traits to largely put the ball where he wants to on any given down and build from there. That's not what the Panthers did.

[CRA]

34 minutes ago, Navy_football said:

Honestly, who is on this long list of current QBs that have done more with worse receiving targets? Even Mahomes had the best TE in the league his entire career. And started out with the friggin Cheetah!

Bryce does enough to make himself look bad, we don't need to be making up stuff. 

windows exist for basically every great QB. 

Go look at what Peyton turned into a top 5 O his first year in Denver with John Fox.   They had nothing there worth talking about.  He made Thomas. 

Go look at what Brady did when Gronk got hurt.  He made Edelman. 

Brees, Lamar, Cam, Rodgers and on and on.

the entire reason the Panthers could sell their fanbase on mortgaging our future on Bryce….was because they claimed he could do what these dudes could do.  Which is make water out of wine when needed.   Not that you want it to be that way every season.  But good QBs can 100% can elevate and create players when need be

[strato]

59 minutes ago, frankw said:

Bryce theoretically could make that throw but he would need a great pocket from which to do it in because he would need to put his entire body into it. Which is what people have been saying about his lack of physical tools working against him. Which is why they brought Andy out to attempt a hail mary. I mean I have to be honest. The fact that anyone is even trying to downplay the significance of that is pitiful and shows how far we’ve fallen as a fanbase.

About the Hail Mary… you probably saw but if not, we just went over that a few days ago and I learned that maybe Reich did that to piss Tepper off (heh) and that Bryce was really pissed and so was Tepper. I had intended to search out the replay of that game and look at Reich and Bryce in that moment, for fun. And look at the um, postgame, um, press conference. Haven’t done it. 

We are talking 50 yards. Definitely not 60. I think I maybe have seen 45 yards in a game but him throwing 50 yards, IMO, is probably gonna look like a rainbow and take a longer time to get to the target. He has to hit the driver to get that distance, can’t use the three wood or 2 iron like the big boys. Like most NFL QBs.

It is kind of like Pinero, his leg is good for what it is good for but anything over a  certain distance, you just can’t do. We moved on, and bang! 57 yarder. We can try them now. 

Said it plenty but I just don’t want that kind of limitation put on my favorite football team.

Edit: and on the video of that beautiful TD to AT that was about 50 air yards? Announcers called it a rainbow lol. Anyhow, that needs to be tried more because I guarantee AT was behind those guys because they didn’t expect them to try that. If you do that more maybe you get them playing a little more off. 

Edited 14 hours ago by strato

[Navy_football]

6 minutes ago, CRA said:

windows exist for basically every great QB. 

Go look at what Peyton turned into a top 5 O his first year in Denver with John Fox.   They had nothing there worth talking about.  He made Thomas. 

Go look at what Brady did when Gronk got hurt.  He made Edelman. 

Brees, Lamar, Cam, Rodgers and on and on.

the entire reason the Panthers could sell their fanbase on mortgaging our future on Bryce….was because they claimed he could do what these dudes could do.  Which is make water out of wine when needed.   Not that you want it to be that way every season.  But good QBs can 100% can elevate and create players when need be

This is so funny to me. First off you're comparing a 3rd year player against HOFs. Every QB you just mentioned is a HOF level talent. That's why I said current QBs, but anyway. So you think Manning made Thomas and Sanders? What did they do after he retired?

Edelman is better than any WR this team has ever had except Smitty. TBD with Tmac. Dude was a pro bowl level punt returner before he started getting WR touches because of guys like Welker and Randy Moss! He was such a good athlete that he even played CB in big moments. Frigging Super Bowl MVP!

Brees wasn't Brees in SD and he never had a squad as bad as this one. Cam, I'll give you that. But we're talking 2015 Cam only. Every other year he had better receiving targets including 3rd leg Greg. And Aaron Rodgers. Really? He sat behind a HOF QB for 3 years before he even started. And then he had Driver and Jennings. 

You're trying to argue just to argue. The truth is BY's rookie season has one player that's still contributing on an NFL team, kind of - Thielen. Second season, not much better. This season, at least he has a #1 talent even if he is a rookie. 

[Shotgun]

3 hours ago, Navy_football said:

So you really think he can't throw to the endzone from the 50? I'm not saying he has the strongest arm in the NFL, but he has more than enough arm to make all the on schedule throws. Now, I agree he ain't gonna be throwing across his body 45 yards down the field. He ain't that. 

Maybe, but can you ever remember a #1 overall qb that had to be benched for a hail mary? That was a new one for me.

[strato]

6 minutes ago, Shotgun said:

Maybe, but can you ever remember a #1 overall qb that had to be benched for a hail mary? That was a new one for me.

let’s not forget the sneak lol. It’s a twofer. 

 

[Shotgun]

24 minutes ago, strato said:

let’s not forget the sneak lol. It’s a twofer. 

 

I kinda figured there would be no sneak goin in, but the hail mary benching was a real eye opener. Maybe Frank was just fuggin with everyone though and Bryce secretly has a cannon.

[strato]

13 minutes ago, Shotgun said:

I kinda figured there would be no sneak goin in, but the hail mary benching was a real eye opener. Maybe Frank was just fuggin with everyone though and Bryce secretly has a cannon.

Someone I think maybe kungfoo but anyhow it was characterized as Reich fuging with Tepper basically. It was just a few days ago I think in one of these recent threads. 
 

And it never happened again. 

[CRA]

3 hours ago, Navy_football said:

This is so funny to me. First off you're comparing a 3rd year player against HOFs. Every QB you just mentioned is a HOF level talent. That's why I said current QBs, but anyway. So you think Manning made Thomas and Sanders? What did they do after he retired?

Edelman is better than any WR this team has ever had except Smitty. TBD with Tmac. Dude was a pro bowl level punt returner before he started getting WR touches because of guys like Welker and Randy Moss! He was such a good athlete that he even played CB in big moments. Frigging Super Bowl MVP!

Brees wasn't Brees in SD and he never had a squad as bad as this one. Cam, I'll give you that. But we're talking 2015 Cam only. Every other year he had better receiving targets including 3rd leg Greg. And Aaron Rodgers. Really? He sat behind a HOF QB for 3 years before he even started. And then he had Driver and Jennings. 

You're trying to argue just to argue. The truth is BY's rookie season has one player that's still contributing on an NFL team, kind of - Thielen. Second season, not much better. This season, at least he has a #1 talent even if he is a rookie. 

I didn’t put a great deal of time into who I named because you just said to name people because the point is the point…..and Tepper sold that point to you and everyone else when they drafted him.  That he could do that.  He isn’t that.

So what do you want? Only examples of it showing in their 3rd year or the point somehow doesn’t exist?  Lamar would have qualified by year 3.  McNabb did by year 3.  Lots of guys who did it at random points could have done it year 3 if that would have been the random year they were called to do it.  

If you name any QB that is actually good you can find windows where they elevate players during down times on a roster.   That’s what I said and it’s true.  It’s so true…. that was the entire sales pitch for Bryce our stupid over investment into him.  Nothing to argue about.  

[CRA]

58 minutes ago, Shotgun said:

I kinda figured there would be no sneak goin in, but the hail mary benching was a real eye opener. Maybe Frank was just fuggin with everyone though and Bryce secretly has a cannon.

I don’t think Frank thought he could make a huge throw unless life was perfect for him.   We have never seen BY really even attempt such either at any point in his career ……and even checkdown Teddy uncorked 50+ his one season here 

[Icege]

 

22 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

Well most of their struggles have been playing better teams(Jax is arguable) so far. Combined opponent records of 7-2.

Stroud's struggles have largely been lack of WR options(injuries), the extremely poor OL play(tied for 8th in most sacks, and really sloppy/poor offensive play overall.

Not to say he isn't part of the issue. 

As for their seasons so far:

Stroud: 76.9 QB Rating, 34.8 QBR, 64.0 PFF, 64.5 QBERT

Young: 75.3 QB Rating, 36.3 QBR, 64.0 PFF, 66.9 QBERT

They have both been similarly bad this season. 

The stats that matter and aren't made up (according to the Huddle):

• Stroud: 599yds, 2 TDs, 3 INTs, 0-3
• Young: 603yds, 4 TDs, 3 INTs, 1-2

Lack of WRs? Poor OL play? Bad playcalling? Sounds a lot like EXCUSES for a 3rd year QB that isn't playing up to their #2 overall draft status!

Edited 1 hour ago by Icege

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, Icege said:

 

The stats that matter and aren't made up (according to the Huddle):

• Stroud: 599yds, 2 TDs, 3 INTs, 0-3
• Young: 4
• 603yds, 4 TDs, 3 INTs, 1-2

Lack of WRs? Poor OL play? Bad playcalling? Sounds a lot like EXCUSES are a 3rd year #2 overall QB!

It's a little early to be drinking(unless you are tailgating).

But they do basically split the two metrics, so it's a sinking/floating turds argument. 

[Icege]

22 hours ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Stoud has won the division 2 years in a row and won in the playoffs.  Odd flex you are trying to pull.   Cj has shown he can do it while with Bryce it's always excuses 

Looks like CJ got carried by his teammates because in year 3 he has less passing yards and TDs than Bryce with more INTs.  

Full disclosure: I think CJ is fine and understand the issues with the team but am enjoying watching the same folks say "NO EXCUSES!!" for Bryce snap their spine in two bending over backwards to give CJ those same "excuses" they denied Bryce. Kungfu doesnt do that, but considering how much you advocate for passing yards as a primary QB metric for success... well... 

Edited 1 hour ago by Icege

[Icege]

6 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

It's a little early to be drinking(unless you are tailgating).

But they do basically split the two metrics, so it's a sinking/floating turds argument. 

No tailgate, no excuses!

(The real excuse is that a cat jumped on my balls at 4am and I haven't been able to go back to sleep because the fat poo keeps climbing back up on the dresser that he leapt from no matter how many times I take him down or what I put to block the path. More sleep deprivation than alcohol poisoning at the moment )

Edited 1 hour ago by Icege