Not on Bryce

[mav1234]

Just now, Jon Snow said:

I've been saying that if you bench Young it's officially over. It really over right now but they just haven't accepted it yet. But it's not going to be but a few more game before they put this lame horse down. The vet is on his way as we speak. 

the thing is, unless Canales has guarantees on year 3, he could still salvage his HC position if he benches Young and the offense succeeds. He did not draft Young and could plausibly show that he can perform with a different QB.

Nobody organizational is playing for draft position this early no matter who is fired or benched tbh

[LinvilleGorge]

4 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

at that point, its done, we are playing for draft position

But if you're Canales and Morgan you're trying to save your jobs. I get it from our perspective. Yeah, it's onto the draft. Talking next year's draft in September is just an annual Panthers' tradition in the Tepper era. But honestly, I'm kinda over that too. Another reset is probably going to go similarly. Folks with other options aren't lining up to work for David Tepper. It looks like a retirement plan because it's gonna help your bank account but it might kill your NFL career, at best it's going to be a significant setback. At this point, I'd honestly rather us do what we can in the meantime to give Canales and Morgan every opportunity to show that we don't need another reset with another batch of guys who no one else was considering for the level of position that we hire them for.

[mav1234]

Just now, LinvilleGorge said:

But if you're Canales and Morgan you're trying to save your jobs. I get it from our perspective. Yeah, it's onto the draft. Talking next year's draft in September is just an annual Panthers' tradition in the Tepper era. But honestly, I'm kinda over that too. Another reset is probably going to go similarly. Folks with other options aren't lining up to work for David Tepper. It looks like a retirement plan because it's gonna help your bank account but it might kill your NFL career, at best it's going to be a significant setback. At this point, I'd honestly rather us do what we can in the meantime to give Canales and Morgan every opportunity to show that we don't need another reset with another batch of guys who no one else was considering for the level of position that we hire them for.

exactly this. This year's draft class looks decent, so I'm on the fence on Morgan. And if Canales can show end of game with Dalton wasn't just the defense letting up but was actually evidence his offense can work with even a washed up backup vet, then I'd honestly rather let him get a QB of his choosing than go through another carousel ride. Canales getting a third year also benefits the org long term - we need to attract qualified coaches and as you churn through guys it becomes less and less likely you'll land anyone, too. Tepper can shed some of his reputation if he keeps giving the football guys long leashes IMO

[mrcompletely11]

Just now, LinvilleGorge said:

Another reset is probably going to go similarly. Folks with other options aren't lining up to work for David Tepper.

Which is why not returning Harbaughs calls and doing a token interview with Vrabel is fuging maddening.  2 good coaches that needed jobs and the teppers once again tried to outsmart the system

[Manna]

Remember when the team sucked because we had Clausen, then we inserted Cam (along with a few other pieces) and the team instantly got better? I'd say we have a competitive team but QB1 is the achilles heel. 

[mrcompletely11]

Just now, mav1234 said:

exactly this. This year's draft class looks decent, so I'm on the fence on Morgan. And if Canales can show end of game with Dalton wasn't just the defense letting up but was actually evidence his offense can work with even a washed up backup vet, then I'd honestly rather let him get a QB of his choosing than go through another carousel ride. Canales getting a third year also benefits the org long term - we need to attract qualified coaches and as you churn through guys it becomes less and less likely you'll land anyone, too. Tepper can shed some of his reputation if he keeps giving the football guys long leashes IMO

for the record I dont want DC fired even if we land on 5ish wins.  I want to see him in year 3 with "his" guy running his offense.  I still dont have a ton of faith in the youth paster shtick but he still deserves a year 3

[Jon Snow]

Just now, mav1234 said:

the thing is, unless Canales has guarantees on year 3, he could still salvage his HC position if he benches Young and the offense succeeds. He did not draft Young and could plausibly show that he can perform with a different QB.

Nobody organizational is playing for draft position this early no matter who is fired or benched tbh

Plausible deniabilaty isn't going to cut it any longer. He used that card last season. This season he chose to hitch his wagon to a pony when he needed a strong horse. So now that his pony is not going to pull the wagon we should just sit back and ignore the rest of his incompetence? I'm sorry, I  cannot get on board with that.

[LinvilleGorge]

2 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Which is why not returning Harbaughs calls and doing a token interview with Vrabel is fuging maddening.  2 good coaches that needed jobs and the teppers once again tried to outsmart the system

I don't blame him for the Harbaugh thing. That was never going to work. There's no way Tepper and Harbaugh can coexist. What I hope Tepper can eventually wrap his head around is that the folks who can coexist with him aren't the folks who are going to build a winner. It seems like he went all in on Rhule and realized that was a mistake but misidentified the mistake. The mistake wasn't handing over the reigns to a football guy, the mistake was handing over the reins to a career college guy.

[mav1234]

1 minute ago, Jon Snow said:

Plausible deniabilaty isn't going to cut it any longer. He used that card last season. This season he chose to hitch his wagon to a pony when he needed a strong horse. So now that his pony is not going to pull the wagon we should just sit back and ignore the rest of his incompetence? I'm sorry, I  cannot get on board with that.

I would have liked us to bring in competition. But, we don't know what Morgan and/or Tepper had to say about that, nor who we could get to come in that would have been a huge upgrade over Dalton. 

To his credit, if BY is as bad as he seems to be - that handful of games at the end of last season does indicate that Canales may be able to bring out the absolute best in someone, lol. 

[mrcompletely11]

2 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

Plausible deniabilaty isn't going to cut it any longer. He used that card last season. This season he chose to hitch his wagon to a pony when he needed a strong horse. So now that his pony is not going to pull the wagon we should just sit back and ignore the rest of his incompetence? I'm sorry, I  cannot get on board with that.

the offense hummed wk 3 against the raiders, the rest of the games meh

[LinvilleGorge]

5 minutes ago, Manna said:

Remember when the team sucked because we had Clausen, then we inserted Cam (along with a few other pieces) and the team instantly got better? I'd say we have a competitive team but QB1 is the achilles heel. 

Yeah, I honestly think we're in about that same situation right now. Put a ROY level QB talent on this roster and we could probably win about 6 games. Similar to Cam's rookie year. I don't think anyone is arguing that we're a good team. 

[Jon Snow]

Just now, mrcompletely11 said:

the offense hummed wk 3 against the raiders, the rest of the games meh

That was the only team that Andy had their number. He's almost always beaten the Raiders so I'm sure that had something to do with  the win as well.

[strato]

33 minutes ago, WhoKnows said:

Reminds me of 2018 when teams realized that Cam’s dink and dunk success early with Norv was also due to his shoulder being shot. After they did, no one played deep and we finished 1-7 that year. Cam didn’t finished that year and played 2 games the next before being shut down.

Yep that is exactly how that went. No deep threat. This whole thing with Bryce, we are supposed to know first hand what happens when they don’t respect the deep ball. 

 It is so damned ignorant to intentionally put yourself in a situation like we had with Cam, with a player who has none of Cam’s physical advantages to boot. So it’s gonna be even tougher and you are supposed to smart enough to know that. 

 

[cranky]

9 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I don't blame him for the Harbaugh thing. That was never going to work. There's no way Tepper and Harbaugh can coexist. What I hope Tepper can eventually wrap his head around is that the folks who can coexist with him aren't the folks who are going to build a winner. It seems like he went all in on Rhule and realized that was a mistake but misidentified the mistake. The mistake wasn't handing over the reigns to a football guy, the mistake was handing over the reins to a career college guy.

I can agree with that but I don't think it was the college part that was the mistake - it's the lack of NFL experience that was the mistake. It's the same mistake he has made with Canales. Both had limited experience in the NFL. Canales had a little more but he only had 1 season as an OC and that was in a system with a strong support system as well and a developed QB. It's hard to know how much of the offenses' success was because of Canales, and how much of it was because of the sytem he worked in. Especially given how successful that team continues to play without him.