Our 2nd Most Productive WR

[strato]

41 minutes ago, *FreeFua* said:

Cam had no choice. Just like Bryce has no choice but to throw to whatever a brycen Tremayne is

Ginn was a one trick pony and his strength played into Cams strength as a passer. It was a good fit. 

Much like Adam Thielen’s route running ability plays into Young’s strength which is anticipation 

Young turned a 35/36 Adam Thielen into a very productive WR again and now that he’s back in Minnesota he’s no where to be seen 

But his wife is happy. 

[frankw]

44 minutes ago, cranky said:

I liked Cam but

Also if you begin a comment about the only MVP in franchise history like this but obsessively carry water for Bryce Young I just want you to know I'm giving you hella side eye.

[*FreeFua*]

4 minutes ago, strato said:

But his wife is happy. 

I’m guessing he probably is too

I doubt he needs the money. We weren’t winning the SB this year. So move back home and see a few snaps and call it a career 

It would have been nice to see what Bryce could’ve done with Tmac and Thielen. He’s never had 2 dependable targets on the field at the same time

[Eazy-E]

17 minutes ago, cranky said:

Ok let me be more specific. Smith was a stud before Newton got here do you not agree? Yes, LaFell improved under Cam but then had his best years after leaving the Panthers with Cam as the QB and going to NE. So he improved playing with someone else. Olsen was in Chicage the year before Cam arrived and statistically had the same numbers his first year with Cam. 

Hope that's clearer for you.

I guess the point I was trying to make went completely over your head. All of those guys mentioned who were on the team in 09-11 had essentially career worst years in 2010 and must have just magically turned it around the next season. 

Or you know, the more logical explanation is that it matters significantly who is under center operating the offense.

Steve smith is basically a HoF WR and he put up 500 yards and 2 TDs with Clausen under center and the next year with a rookie Cam put up 1400 yards and 7 TDs.

You can have all the talent in the world but it doesn’t really matter if your QB sucks.

[Icege]

2 hours ago, mav1234 said:

What evidence do you have that Bryce had one of the best deep balls in college?

Just curious because outside of highlights it seemed he wasn't very good there. His strength seemed more escaping the pocket and playing outside structure of the offense, rather than a deep ball. His arm was always considered sort of meh - good enough but not great.

Not specific to college, but last season upon return from benching Bryce was pretty damn good throwing deep. There were compilations of all of his 20+ yard throws while under pressure and with no pressure (I'll find the links and tag you when I get in the school car line in ~1hr). This isn't to say that he's the best at it by any stretch or that he's even top-10 at it. However, he most definitely can throw the ball further than 20yds downfield accurately and there's more than enough evidence to show it. Is he going to be throwing fastballs or 70yd bombs like Cam? No, but he's shown plenty of times that he can get the ball out with the velocity and timing needed.

There's also the fact that... well... the deep ball is not a play that is solely dependent on the QB. Protection needs to hold up, WRs need to have the speed to get by defenders or rack up YAC, and coaches need to call the deep shots. TMac currently has the highest YAC/R (4.7yds) which is #50 in the league. XL is dead last with 0.4yds and Renfrow makes the bottom 10 with 1.9yds. XL has speed, but he was out with a hammy the previous weeks.

Good but not great is the best description for his arm imo. It isn't going to jump out and impress anyone, but it also isn't Jimmy Clausen who had a true noodle arm.

[Mage]

Two things can be true

Bryce is bad and our WRs, outside of Tet, suck

[Icege]

58 minutes ago, *FreeFua* said:

whatever a brycen Tremayne is

SIR

EXCUSE ME, SIR

MAY I HAVE A MOMENT OF YOUR TIME TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT OUR UDFA WR, BRYCEN "THE MAIN" TREMAYNE?

I have his HS picture here so that you can rest assured that he has always been him.

[LinvilleGorge]

9 minutes ago, Icege said:

Good but not great is the best description for his arm imo. 

Bryce's arm strength is absolutely subpar at the NFL level. How many current NFL QBs can you honestly name with a weaker arm? When I hear "good" I'm thinking at least above average. That's absolutely not the case. Honestly, the rosiest argument for Bryce's arm strength at the NFL level is arguing that it's manageable. It's always going to be a limiting factor of his game.

I encourage people to watch other games. It's hard to watch the opposing team objectively so turn on a game where you have no rooting interest and just watch throws being made that Bryce either can't reliably make or flat out can't even attempt.

 

[cranky]

10 minutes ago, frankw said:

Also if you begin a comment about the only MVP in franchise history like this but obsessively carry water for Bryce Young I just want you to know I'm giving you hella side eye.

LOL. Sorry, Didn't mean to ruffle your feathers. Please no more side eyes!

I wasn't disparaging him. I just don't agree that Cam lifted eveyone around him. He was surrounded with talent when he was drafted - unlike Young. Cam was a unique talent that set the way for many athletic QBs to follow. We were fortunate him him play here. But again, part of his strength were in his legs as opposed to his arm. 

[strato]

17 minutes ago, *FreeFua* said:

I’m guessing he probably is too

I doubt he needs the money. We weren’t winning the SB this year. So move back home and see a few snaps and call it a career 

It would have been nice to see what Bryce could’ve done with Tmac and Thielen. He’s never had 2 dependable targets on the field at the same time

I was trying to be cynical. I would rather he have been here too. But if he didn’t want to be here it’s just better to move on. And we got a little something back for the future. 

He missed a lot of time last year and is another year older so we don’t know if would have even held up - the point being Bryce was going to learn to operate without him, probably at some point even if he had stayed. 

Edited 2 hours ago by strato

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, cranky said:

LOL. Sorry, Didn't mean to ruffle your feathers. Please no more side eyes!

I wasn't disparaging him. I just don't agree that Cam lifted eveyone around him. He was surrounded with talent when he was drafted - unlike Young. Cam was a unique talent that set the way for many athletic QBs to follow. We were fortunate him him play here. But again, part of his strength were in his legs as opposed to his arm. 

A wild statement for a guy who won an MVP with Ted Ginn Jr. as his #1 WR. I mean, just listen to Greg Olsen. Greg very openly gives Cam a TON of credit for how his career played out.

[cranky]

15 minutes ago, Eazy-E said:

I guess the point I was trying to make went completely over your head. All of those guys mentioned who were on the team in 09-11 had essentially career worst years in 2010 and must have just magically turned it around the next season. 

Or you know, the more logical explanation is that it matters significantly who is under center operating the offense.

Steve smith is basically a HoF WR and he put up 500 yards and 2 TDs with Clausen under center and the next year with a rookie Cam put up 1400 yards and 7 TDs.

You can have all the talent in the world but it doesn’t really matter if your QB sucks.

I know the point you were making. My point is the original post stated a good QB elevates the talent around him. You are correct that Smith was better under Cam than Clausen. I agree with that. But he was also better with Delhomme than Clasuen as well. Cam didn't make Smith a better receiver - Clausen just made him worse. 

[strato]

28 minutes ago, cranky said:

Ok let me be more specific. Smith was a stud before Newton got here do you not agree? Yes, LaFell improved under Cam but then had his best years after leaving the Panthers with Cam as the QB and going to NE. So he improved playing with someone else. Olsen was in Chicage the year before Cam arrived and statistically had the same numbers his first year with Cam. 

Hope that's clearer for you.

That is a shallow contention on one point, omitting the context that Olsen was sharing targets with Jeremy Shockey.

To imply that Cam didn’t help Olsen be the player he was is not really being straight up 

I ain’t even looking up LaFells NE numbers but was he playing with Tom Brady? 

[Eazy-E]

12 minutes ago, cranky said:

I know the point you were making. My point is the original post stated a good QB elevates the talent around him. You are correct that Smith was better under Cam than Clausen. I agree with that. But he was also better with Delhomme than Clasuen as well. Cam didn't make Smith a better receiver - Clausen just made him worse. 

So having a QB that allows an already good player to play even better wouldn’t be considered elevating to you? 

Smith had back to back sub 1k seasons with a one armed Jake Delhomme, Matt Moore, Jimmy Clausen and one game of Brian St Pierre. 

Cam 100% elevated a 32 year old Steve Smith.

Edited 1 hour ago by Eazy-E