Bryce stats past the sticks

[electro's horse]

1 hour ago, Dave Gettleman's Shorts said:

crazy what a good run game and play action does for a QB

 

[strato]

47 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

I don't necessarily agree that they're "coaching to win the game" in that sense.

If we were a contender with an established QB, then yes, you're "coaching to win the game"

But if our coaches are only "coaching to win the game" every week, then they need to be replaced, immediately.  This team is WAY too young with too many uncertain futures to only be worried about the game at hand every week.  It's the literal reason Canales came out and said we need to play the younger defensive players more and why we cut DJ, because we need to improve the younger guys on an accelerated schedule.

Sometimes you do things that may hurt your chances to win that week but will significantly increase your chances to win more in the future.

With a team like ours, there has to be a balance of trying to win games while also trying to improve our players at the same time, and I see games/stats like this and see a somewhat missed opportunity, that's it.

I will simply counter all that with: you should always strive, at every turn, to avoid indoctrinating young players into a culture of not playing to win the game. 

Come man, that is an egghead academic approach that ignores the human element. it looks good on paper. Maybe. 

In the voice of the great  Herm Edwards: Hello! You play to win the game. 

I completely understand the need but that is not the way….

 

Edited 2 hours ago by strato

[CRA]

38 minutes ago, PanthersGTI said:

I really think people are stuck in like 2018 or something. NFL defenses are built to stop the deep pass. We've come full circle on the trend. Defenses want to limit big plays now, so running game and quick passes are back in. It will change again in a few years I am sure. If you want proof of this look up some Brandt Tillis interviews, he goes in depth on the trends in the NFL as of like 2023. 

 

BY9 was like #8 on average yards per throw this week ( #1 in TD% BTW ). Not really sure what the issue is.

this is true.  But NFL Ss and defenses are actively taking that away and playing to take them away vs most teams.  The problem thus far in BY's career......is they are cheating and not respecting the deep game which makes the smaller/mid range game harder to pull off. 

and Dallas is an anomaly game.  using those random games that run counter to vast work......doesn't really change the discussion/issues in Carolina.  Bryce Young took the shots this week because they were not just NFL open but college open.    Wide open dudes downfield that really were coverage busts/issues. 

[strato]

2 minutes ago, electro's horse said:

 

Good lord. I don’t think I have ever seen a hole that open. 

[tukafan21]

8 minutes ago, XClown1986 said:

No coach was ever fired for "winning ugly." But trying to be flashy or taking unnecessary risks in a game that was close down to the wire? What if this lead to losing the game? Not even because of mistakes or bad passes etc., but because of mismanaging the clock and field position because of the passing plays that were called in order to "develop the deep passing game"? Do you think Tepper would have given Canales a slap on the back and said "Hey, at least we should be better down the road, maybe. Good job, coach."? 

This is a team and fanbase starved for wins. Canales is delivering that. Nobody expects this team to win the Superbowl or even make the playoffs, he simply wants to instill confidence and a winning mentality into a group of men that need it. Once they learn how to win and start believing they can win and they ACTUALLY start winning, we can talk about other details. Winning changes a culture. The Panthers NEED a culture change. It doesn't matter right now how they get there. 

That's a very incorrect statement right off the bat, coaches get fired for winning ugly all the time.  Every coach of a playoff team that then gets fired, got fired because they won ugly and didn't improve their players enough to win in the postseason.

Guys like Andy Reid have been fired for "winning ugly" like you said, because they kept winning in spite of the improvement of their players.

Also, "this is a fanbase starved for wins" is a statement I also don't agree with, I'm not "starved for wins", I'm "starved for a winning and contending franchise" which are two VERY different things.

If the team and fans just want to win some games, then that's a loser mentality, sorry, but it is.  We should want to contend, not win a handful of games.  Every time this comes up I point back to the Lions the last 5 years or so.  They were losing games but improving every week while doing so a few years back.  THAT is how you improve as a franchise and move the needle towards contending, not winning games ugly.

[XClown1986]

1 minute ago, tukafan21 said:

That's a very incorrect statement right off the bat, coaches get fired for winning ugly all the time.  Every coach of a playoff team that then gets fired, got fired because they won ugly and didn't improve their players enough to win in the postseason.

Guys like Andy Reid have been fired for "winning ugly" like you said, because they kept winning in spite of the improvement of their players.

Also, "this is a fanbase starved for wins" is a statement I also don't agree with, I'm not "starved for wins", I'm "starved for a winning and contending franchise" which are two VERY different things.

If the team and fans just want to win some games, then that's a loser mentality, sorry, but it is.  We should want to contend, not win a handful of games.  Every time this comes up I point back to the Lions the last 5 years or so.  They were losing games but improving every week while doing so a few years back.  THAT is how you improve as a franchise and move the needle towards contending, not winning games ugly.

You're starved for your boy T-Mac to catch 50 yard bombs. That's what this is really about.

[NAS]

4 minutes ago, strato said:

Good lord. I don’t think I have ever seen a hole that open. 

[NAS]

3 minutes ago, XClown1986 said:

You're starved for your boy T-Mac to catch 50 yard bombs. That's what this is really about.

Ngl I am waiting for that too. 

[tukafan21]

6 minutes ago, strato said:

I will simply counter all that with: you should always strive, at every turn, to avoid indoctrinating young players into a culture of not playing to win the game. 

Come man, that is an egghead academic approach that ignores the human element. it looks good on paper. Maybe. 

In the voice of the great  Herm Edwards: Hello! You play to win the game. 

I completely understand the need but that is not the way….

 

You mean the guy who took over a franchise that hadn't had a losing season in the previous 4 seasons... who proceeded to get his team into the playoffs in 3 of his first 4 seasons, only to win 2 games in said playoffs, to then go on to having a 54-74 career record and never won another playoff game after those first two?

Who then after being fired from that job, took over a team that was 30-18 in the 3 seasons before he got the job, got into the playoffs that first season, lost their first postseasons game, and then went on to have a 6-26 record over the next 2 seasons?

You're literally proving my point by bringing up someone who's claim to fame is that quote.

If you just play to win the game, you're never going to be a successful franchise.  You need to play to win the game while ALSO working to make your players better.  Having the former without the latter is a picture perfect recipe to become a stagnant franchise.

That's how you work towards being a winning franchise who can contend in the postseason.  And sure, having a stagnant franchise that makes the playoffs every other season is better than what we currently are, but that's not what I strive for with our Panthers, I want to actually contend for championships in my lifetime.

[tukafan21]

6 minutes ago, XClown1986 said:

You're starved for your boy T-Mac to catch 50 yard bombs. That's what this is really about.

No, I'm starved for contention.

If you can't see that and keep wanting to turn things like this back around on T-Mac, then you're just either being purposefully obtuse, or is a fan who is happy having 5-6 win seasons just because we're so used to the 3-4 win seasons and you like "just being better"

[TN05]

1 hour ago, cranky said:

If you look at every QBs chart on the NextGen stats page, you will see Young pretty much threw more passes past the 10 yard line than any of the other QB's this week and he completed a higher percentage of them this week as well. The same goes for last week. He doesn't have the most both weeks but he is in the top 5 both weeks.

I don't know why everyone keeps griping about this subject. The charts show it simply isn't true.

Fwiw he's same guy that after last week was insisting Rico Dowdle's game was actually bad because he got the 200+ yards on big plays and if you remove all the big plays he's bad.

So it makes since that this week, he'd say Bryce was bad because... he was consistent, and didn't have enough big plays.

What?

[strato]

9 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

You mean the guy who took over a franchise that hadn't had a losing season in the previous 4 seasons... who proceeded to get his team into the playoffs in 3 of his first 4 seasons, only to win 2 games in said playoffs, to then go on to having a 54-74 career record and never won another playoff game after those first two?

Who then after being fired from that job, took over a team that was 30-18 in the 3 seasons before he got the job, got into the playoffs that first season, lost their first postseasons game, and then went on to have a 6-26 record over the next 2 seasons?

You're literally proving my point by bringing up someone who's claim to fame is that quote.

If you just play to win the game, you're never going to be a successful franchise.  You need to play to win the game while ALSO working to make your players better.  Having the former without the latter is a picture perfect recipe to become a stagnant franchise.

That's how you work towards being a winning franchise who can contend in the postseason.  And sure, having a stagnant franchise that makes the playoffs every other season is better than what we currently are, but that's not what I strive for with our Panthers, I want to actually contend for championships in my lifetime.

I was afraid you would use Herm to miss the point, but I risked it because despite his record he was 100% right on that one. Congratulations. 

[Jon Snow]

Complain when he doesn't throw to wide open receivers and complain when he does. You guys are making my head spin.

[strato]

14 minutes ago, NAS said:

I thought better of leaving my line about the town slut in, and omitted it but I am with with you there.