Pass Rush

[NAS]

Worse than you think. Should have paid Burns.

32nd in pressure rate
26th in sack rate
32nd in non-blitz pressure rate
29th in pass rush win rate

Edited October 30 by NAS

[kungfoodude]

It wouldn’t be markedly better with Burns. He is feasting because he is surrounded by freakishly talented DL. That's not the case here.

Plus he took a pretty big drop off from his back to back PB seasons when Evro showed up. I suspect he wouldn't be terribly effective in this defense. Certainly would improve our pass rush but not enough to truly matter.

[UnluckyforSome]

Not paying Burns is 1 thing. Attempting to bolster the pass rush with nobodies and has-beens is a completely different matter unfortunately. Maybe we should draft another wr?

[kungfoodude]

10 minutes ago, UnluckyforSome said:

Not paying Burns is 1 thing. Attempting to bolster the pass rush with nobodies and has-beens is a completely different matter unfortunately. Maybe we should draft another wr?

Our general idea seems to be amassing role players and giving them starter reps.

[Candler Cat]

Burns should be in a Rams uniform

[NAS]

30 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

It wouldn’t be markedly better with Burns. He is feasting because he is surrounded by freakishly talented DL. That's not the case here

DB is taking on double teams on most plays, we have talent on the D line, just not at the edge position (yet)

[kungfoodude]

8 minutes ago, Candler Cat said:

Burns should be in a Rams uniform

The Rams have to be so insanely amped they dodged that bullet. Ended up with a far better, cheaper and younger version of Burns.

[kungfoodude]

3 minutes ago, NAS said:

DB is taking on double teams on most plays, we have talent on the D line, just not at the edge position (yet)

Our talent is DB. They have an arguably better version of DB and a fleet of exceptional pass rushers. There is a reason he is feasting. 

Most of those reasons would evaporate here. It would be a standard Burns year. Poor run defense on a consistent basis, getting abused in coverage in this scheme, creating QB pressures but getting very few sacks comparatively. He never really changed at all while he was here. He didn't look literally any different in NY last year, either.

[TD alt]

33 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Our talent is DB. They have an arguably better version of DB and a fleet of exceptional pass rushers. There is a reason he is feasting. 

Most of those reasons would evaporate here. It would be a standard Burns year. Poor run defense on a consistent basis, getting abused in coverage in this scheme, creating QB pressures but getting very few sacks comparatively. He never really changed at all while he was here. He didn't look literally any different in NY last year, either.

I mean, some of y'all keep on saying that, but the fact is is that he is the only Giant feasting. Burns is just better than many of us thought, myself included.

Sometimes it just takes guys time to get to the top of their game, that's why I'm going to give our rookies a lot of grace. It might be a couple of years before they hit their stride (though it didn't take Burns that long). But I have been disappointed. Moreover, I suspect that they all might benefit by migrating to  a 4-3 base. 

But Burns is what he is. It was ultimately bad timing IMO. After Scott Fitterer failed to take the two firsts, things were destined to go downhill.

I think we should've kept Clowney for another year or so more than Burns, but it's all been fûcked up anyway, so nobody was probably going to make that much of a difference.

[PleaseCutStewart]

I'd rather not have Burns and draft good edge rushers. He wasn't worth the contract he got for a dude that could only rush the passer and frankly did a terrible job of it for us because whenever he did beat his blocker, he would whiff on the QB. Congrats to him for actually being able to wrap up the QB this year - it's the first time he has consistently been able to do it.

The amount of teams that ran right at him while he was with us shows that teams realized he was an undersized edge and could get pushed backwards several yards on run plays. Having Dexter Lawrence next to you helps mask that problem

[Khyber53]

Move back to 4-3 full time, start putting more mass and muscle into our DEs and push for more blitzing, too.

I'm sick of a passive defense approach... "Do what you want to the girl, just leave me alone" isn't how you win in the NFL.

[PleaseCutStewart]

2 minutes ago, TD alt said:

I mean, some of y'all keep on saying that, but the fact is is that he is the only Giant feasting. Burns is just better than many of us thought, myself included.

Sometimes it just takes guys time to get to the top of their game, that's why I'm going to give our rookies a lot of grace. It might be a couple of years before they hit their stride (though it didn't take Burns that long). But I have been disappointed. Moreover, I suspect that they all might benefit by migrating to  a 4-3 base. 

But Burns is what he is. It was ultimately bad timing IMO. After Scott Fitterer failed to take the two firsts, things were destined to go downhill.

I think we should've kept Clowney for another year or so more than Burns, but it's all been fûcked up anyway, so nobody was probably going to make that much of a difference.

This whole 3-4 vs 4-3 debate is pretty tiresome and useless. Most teams are running nickel (or some nickel variant) over half of their defensive snaps because of the amount of offenses that are running spread offenses with 3 wide receivers (and a lot of teams are incorporating more RPO plays).

Now, the real question is when offenses start shifting back to a more power run type of style, do teams start changing course and running less nickel...

[csx]

The Giants arent much better according to this chart.

They are actually doing worse overall than we have since the trade. 

Edited October 30 by csx

[cranky]

I fine with Burns leaving, I am not fine with Evero staying.