Okay gentlemen, REAL talk...

[Loyalty4Life]

4 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

I like to look at trends for a young QB but everyone has their own criteria.  Is he getting better throughout the year each year?  I think so, but I still want to see some consistency.  I like that he had 2 of his best games in his most recent 3 with one being on the road.  I also like how the team is learning to win with him as a leader.  I don't like the inconsistencies but this is a pretty young offense and offensive staff.  It will be interesting to see how we finish.  Regardless QB2 HAS to be upgraded this offseason.  

Great take.  

I'm a big Bryce fan and have been since we drafted him.  My stance has always been to give him time to develop.  To have some patience.  

I look at each play and figure out where the issue was on that play and who did their job and who screwed up.  Over time you look to see if the player is improving.  Stats are a reflection of making the right decisions but depend very heavily on what the other 10 guys did or didn't do and what play Canales called and the situation.  

I hope no one would argue that the games in which Bryce plays well, he usually plays really, really well.  You can easily see on dozens of individual plays where is does things at an elite level.  We can also see how the teams talks about and responds to him, on and off the field.  We are at the point now where we know whats possible.  The question now is how to do it more consistently.  

We have a young coach.
We have a young GM.
We have young players.
We have Young.
 
Let the Panthers cook.

It may not be happening on the time table or in the exact way the fan base wants but no one can argue this is the best the team has looked from top to bottom since Watt blew up Cam's shoulder.  Front office, coaching staff and players.  

Win, lose or draw the Panthers are exciting and contending again.

[MHS831]

1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

I'm not a big Sellers fan.

He has lost a lot of stock value this year--was it the supporting cast or the player?  

[Jon Snow]

26 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

He has lost a lot of stock value this year--was it the supporting cast or the player?  

The player. He doesn't know how to play th qb position. He can't play it in college and he sure as hell won't be able to play it in the nfl. He's just big and can run fast. Oh, he can throw the football real far. But a qb he is not and you cannot make him one. Its a waste of even a 7th round pick. 

[ForJimmy]

2 hours ago, MHS831 said:

He has lost a lot of stock value this year--was it the supporting cast or the player?  

His OC being Mike Shula didn’t help him develop. His OL struggled too, but yeah he seems to have trouble reading the field. 

[CRA]

2 hours ago, MHS831 said:

He has lost a lot of stock value this year--was it the supporting cast or the player?  

I think both.  And some of his stock rise from the year prior wasn’t really off good QB play.    Clemson game is an example.  Huge win.  Last minute win.   Sellars couldn’t complete a pass hardly that entire game though.  He was just kept shrugging off could have been sacks and turning them into huge runs vs a team that couldn’t tackle at the end of the season.  Great athlete.  

 

[CRA]

3 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

His OC being Mike Shula didn’t help him develop. His OL struggled too, but yeah he seems to have trouble reading the field. 

His best weapon was sort of weird too.  Harbor isn’t really QB friendly yet.   He is big and fast and probably equally raw to Sellars.   I think Sellars could leave and have sort of a Jalen Hurts uptick and improvement when he left Bama

[Mr. Scot]

4 hours ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

I'm concerned with stats because they can show more than just numbers. They show trends. As an example, if Bryce went 20/25 for 250 yards but 200 of that was YAC, that means he only averaged about 2.5 yards per throw in the air before the receiver. As a defender, that means 2 things. Shitty tackling, and an extreme amount of short passing at or close to the line of scrimmage.

It changes how you can play defense, and offense. It's the reason Bryce was able to complete those 2 passes on 4th down Sunday. Obvious running situation that the defense played based on the likelihood the play would be a run, based off the numbers. DC called the pass play because it was a higher chance of success given what the defense was likely playing. Bigger risk, bigger reward. If it works, you're a genius, if not, well, should have followed the numbers. 

Obviously this is a made up example, but it shows that stats matter, if applied the right way, at the right time. Just looking at a stat sheet doesn't tell the entire story. You have to look at everything. But ignoring stats when trying to analyze any player's performance is just making it harder on yourself. 

Depending on stats in a team sport is a massive gamble.

QBx has a far better completion percentage than QBy. Is he better, or are his receivers better?

QBa has fewer passing yards than QBb, but one plays for a team with a bell cow runningback while the other plays for a team that runs a high percentage passing attack.

RBq has far fewer rushing yards than RBz, but he also doesn't have anything close to as good a set of blockers opening holes for him.

Those are only a few examples. You could easily find dozens more.

Baseball is a sport that lends much better to individual stats as a measuring stick. Football is a hundred times more complex; hence why stats can be misleading.

[Mr. Scot]

4 hours ago, CRA said:

again, I missed everyone here crediting Mike Remmers for helping us get to the Super Bowl.  Bump those kudos for me. 

We are going to improve our weak spots? there are literally people arguing we should pick up Bryce's 5th year and he should be the starter next year.  

I'm not arguing people in Carolina are going to think like me.  The people in Carolina have done idiotic building for years now.  Which I have been very vocal about the entire Tepper era.   I would like for them to stop being stupid.....and this is literally the place you would voice such.   I yearn for a rude awakening.  It's literally what I am lobbying for.  To match a coach/scheme and QB that fit together for the first time in 4 years. 

Mike Remmers deserved credit for helping us get to the Super Bowl. Don't really care whether people were willing to give it to him or not. He helped us win games too.

Go back to the 96 season. Kevin Greene was a big part of our season up to and including our playoff run. But what happened in the championship game? Sherman Lewis looked at the tape of our games up to then and formulated a strategy to run specifically at Greene. And it worked. They ran all over us.

Does that erase how much Greene helped us win that year?

Nope, sure doesn't.

There are always gonna be some players who are better than others, sometimes markedly so. But with the NFL landscape having as many teams as it does and as many players on rosters right now, and even those players being subject to a salary cap, it just isn't possible to build the kind of roster you could create in decades past.

That's just a reality of the modern game. Every team is forced to build up some units at the expense of others. We're no different.

And the bottom line right now is that as much as you, me, or anyone else wants us to put a priority on finding another quarterback, the team might not see that as a need.

[Mr. Scot]

4 hours ago, ThPantherFan said:

Mr. Scott, either you are a person working within a football team or you are a genius.  I would bet you are both.  Love reading your posts. 

I ain't the former (I wish )

Not gonna claim I'm the latter. That's for others to judge. (not the type to toot my own horn)

Appreciate the kudos, though. Many thanks

Edited 29 minutes ago by Mr. Scot

[ForJimmy]

37 minutes ago, CRA said:

His best weapon was sort of weird too.  Harbor isn’t really QB friendly yet.   He is big and fast and probably equally raw to Sellars.   I think Sellars could leave and have sort of a Jalen Hurts uptick and improvement when he left Bama

I’d love to see what Riley can do with him at the other USC. He is the one who helped Hurts at Oklahoma as well. 

[Mr. Scot]

4 hours ago, CRA said:

I think the worst starting QB in the NFL over the last 3 years is starting today......because the folks with egg all over there face have tripled down on not having the worst pick in NFL history associated w/ their resume. 

yeah, I don't think the folks in charge think like me.  That's not like a thing I suggest.  People didn't like me blasting the Frank/Bryce pairing before that week 1 kicked off.   Our front office gets the simple wrong.  Bryce is a round peg in a square peg org.   We had those talks back when you defended Fitterer lol. 

*on an actual sincere side note, I'm glad you are back and over whatever hurdles came your way...so that we can argue again.  We never see eye to eye and that's an ok thing. 

You know, believe it or not, it is actually possible that professional football people might truly believe that Bryce is genuinely good (it happens to me too).

And to be clear, my "hurdles" are pretty much just facts of life anymore, but hey...

(I am getting more opportunity to enjoy the board these days)

Edited 22 minutes ago by Mr. Scot

[Car123]

9 hours ago, mrcompletely11 said:

lol

 

Its been 3 years dude, 3 years of basically the same stats.   

Same stats? He’s already hit his career high for passing tds, comp pct, passer rating..

[Mr. Scot]

4 hours ago, Shotgun said:

You dont think Rex Grossman was awesome? He went to a super bowl! He completed a pass on 4th down once!

Funny you mention Grossman because his name regularly surfaces in my head as a comparison to Bryce.

Different strengths and weakness, but similar overall quality.

[Mr. Scot]

3 hours ago, ForJimmy said:

Found this stat interesting

https://x.com/TacosTweets/status/1995247160942567430

Definitely has some clutch gene in there. 

-Feel free to attack it or highlight it to help it conform to whichever agenda you like.  I'll keep saying it's simply easier to say when he plays good and call out when he plays bad.  

He's a double edged sword.

Some players are. Smitty could be one of those too. Delhomme definitely was.

Yeah, it makes being a fan a rollercoaster ride but we all oughtta be used to that by now.