Go after Shedeur this offseason.

[ForJimmy]

24 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I would've loved to have had Howell get a shot to play under Pete Carroll but Carroll has obviously developed some pretty bad Geno Smith goggles in his final years and it might bounce him out of the league.

DC has some Pete Carroll similarities which is another reason why I think it would be a good fit.  To be clear I'm not saying DC is as good as Carroll just shares a similar personality/style of coaching since he learned under him.   

[Mr. Scot]

3 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I'm not saying they tell the whole story, but when a guy is measurably better at everything it seems logical to conclude that... well, he's better. It's pretty rare to compare two players where one is measurably better across the board and try to argue that the lesser performer is actually the better player. You'd expect to be able to find something to hang your hat on in the numbers.

David Carr has better stats than a lot of guys when he played. Hell, when we got him one of the big talking points was that he had the best completion percentage in the entire league.

Still didn't work out so well.

Are there stats that measure field vision? Not really. You can try to apply stats to argue for it but it's all extrapolation.

I go back to what I've said before as far as individual stats in a team game.

...

Statement: "Quarterback X has lousy completion percentage."

Question: How good are his receivers?

...

Statement: "Quarterback X hasnt thrown for more than 200 yards in a single game this year."

Question: Does his team have a run heavy scheme or a phenomenally effective run game?

...

Statement: "Quarterback X has thrown for 3000 yards this season."

Question: How many of those yards came after the catch? 

...

Statement: "Quarterback X didn't throw a pass further than ten yards last game." 

Question: But did he put the ball in good spots for his receivers to catch it and run for good gains?

...

There are hundreds of examples like this, examples that apply to just about every measurable there is in the game. 

One of the things I have always loved about football is the incredible complexity of the game. But that complexity makes player evaluation all that much more difficult and means that dependence on "simple metrics" just isn't something you can hold in high priority. 

[LinvilleGorge]

5 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

David Carr has better stats than a lot of guys when he played. Hell, when we got him one of the big talking points was that he had the best completion percentage in the entire league.

Still didn't work out so well.

Are there stats that measure field vision? Not really. You can try to apply stats to argue for it but it's all extrapolation.

I go back to what I've said before as far as individual stats in a team game.

...

Statement: "Quarterback X has lousy completion percentage."

Question: How good are his receivers?

...

Statement: "Quarterback X hasnt thrown for more than 200 yards in a single game this year."

Question: Does his team have a run heavy scheme or a phenomenally effective run game?

...

Statement: "Quarterback X has thrown for 3000 yards this season."

Question: How many of those yards came after the catch? 

...

Statement: "Quarterback X didn't throw a pass further than ten yards last game." 

Question: But did he put the ball in good spots for his receivers to catch it and run for good gains?

...

There are hundreds of examples like this, examples that apply to just about every measurable there is in the game. 

One of the things I have always loved about football is the incredible complexity of the game. But that complexity makes player evaluation all that much more difficult and means that dependence on "simple metrics" just isn't something you can hold in high priority. 

That's why it's important not to cherry pick specific metrics which is what you're doing here to try to make your argument that stats don't matter. But when a guy is superior across the board... I mean, you're left with a real uphill battle to make a compelling argument with concrete data to back it up. You're basically left with trying to make the argument that despite this guy performing worse in practically every measurable metric of QB play, I think he's actually a better player. That's a tough case to make.

[Mr. Scot]

6 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

That's why it's important not to cherry pick specific metrics which is what you're doing here to try to make your argument that stats don't matter. But when a guy is superior across the board... I mean, you're left with a real uphill battle to make a compelling argument with concrete data to back it up. You're basically left with trying to make the argument that despite this guy performing worse in practically every measurable metric of QB play, I think he's actually a better player. That's a tough case to make.

I'm not cherry picking metrics. 

I'm ignoring all of them.

There are things about a player that stats are never gonna tell you. And there are things you might think stats tell you that are actually wrong.

We've been talking about Howell so I looked up his stats for last season with Seattle. In the two games where he played, he had a completion percentage under 36 percent and his overall quarterback rating was in the mid teens.

Should I consider those things valid for evaluative purposes?

[TD alt]

2 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

Yeah...No.

When John Elway did it, it was entitled behavior.

When Eli Manning did it, it was entitled behavior.

Those two guys were significantly better quarterbacks than Sanders, and thus way better positioned to act like brats than Sanders was, but that doesn't excuse their actions.

My guess would be either Sanders, or more likely...his dad, thought he was on their level.

The NFL disagreed.

The guy he ultimately ends up bearing a closer resemblance to is Pat White from WVU. White didn't refuse to be drafted by any particular team, but he let it be known in team interviews that he would not play a Kordell Stewart "slash" type role (back when that was popular).

That dropped him on a lot of draft boards, and he wound up being nothing special at the pro level. I've long believed his attitude was part of that. His athletic skills were phenomenal and he was great at the college level, but hIs NFL career is basically a footnote.

Sanders Will likely be more memorable than White was, but probably more so for highlight reels than actual success. 

Dude, you're kinda comparing apples to oranges. What Elway did and what Eli did were different than what Shedeur did. Shedeur did not publicly demand anything. It was through back channels and was more like a request. The Ravens understood and honored it. But even if you consider it entitlement (which is debatable regardless if you want to admit it or not), it was to a much lesser degree. After sliding, Sanders really didn't have any leverage whatsoever. 

As for his attitude you can obviously believe what you want, but it has been widely reported that Shedeur's attitude has been great since being in the league. 

Opinions about what he is, will become or won't become is getting way ahead of ourselves. I prefer to just wait and see what happens. He's young and has had a pretty good start. Highlight-reel-plays aren't a bad thing. I'm not invested in trying to pull the kid down. I realize that just like any other QB that has been drafted into the league, it's hard to say what they will become unless you see an appreciable body of work. Three games ain't really it. I'll withhold judgment on what I believe he can become after I see more.

 

[Mr. Scot]

15 minutes ago, TD alt said:

Dude, you're kinda comparing apples to oranges. What Elway did and what Eli did were different than what Shedeur did. Shedeur did not publicly demand anything. It was through back channels and was more like a request. The Ravens understood and honored it. But even if you consider it entitlement (which is debatable regardless if you want to admit it or not), it was to a much lesser degree. After sliding, Sanders really didn't have any leverage whatsoever. 

As for his attitude you can obviously believe what you want, but it has been widely reported that Shedeur's attitude has been great since being in the league. 

Opinions about what he is, will become or won't become is getting way ahead of ourselves. I prefer to just wait and see what happens. He's young and has had a pretty good start. Highlight-reel-plays aren't a bad thing. I'm not invested in trying to pull the kid down. I realize that just like any other QB that has been drafted into the league, it's hard to say what they will become unless you see an appreciable body of work. Three games ain't really it. I'll withhold judgment on what I believe he can become after I see more.

One being done publicly while the other was done privately doesn't really make it any better.

It's still basically saying "I deserve better than this", and it gives people a really bad taste in their mouths.

Not only did the league disagree, but they took a rather dim view of the whole episode...and rightly so.

As to highlight reel plays, I xould put together a highlight reel of Bryce that would make him look like the best thing going. But once you saw him play a full game, you'd know the truth.

Hell, guys like Ryan Leaf, Michael Vick and Rex Grossman could put out great highlight reels. You just had to kinda look away when they did the...other stuff

Bottom Line for me, if I were giving Sanders career advice right now, I can tell you what my first suggestions would be:

- Tell your dad to sit down, shut up and butt out.

- Likewise, find yourself an agent that has absolutely nothing to do with Deion or any of his close associates

- Also sign up with  a QB coach that'll always tell you the unvarnished truth, not just say how great you are

To sum it up, ggo out there and make it or break it without your famous father's influence, comments or his very public presence.

I doubt that happens, but I don't doubt that it might be the best thing for him.

Edited 14 minutes ago by Mr. Scot

[Proudiddy]

41 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

That's why it's important not to cherry pick specific metrics which is what you're doing here to try to make your argument that stats don't matter. But when a guy is superior across the board... I mean, you're left with a real uphill battle to make a compelling argument with concrete data to back it up. You're basically left with trying to make the argument that despite this guy performing worse in practically every measurable metric of QB play, I think he's actually a better player. That's a tough case to make.

This is what Brycers do.  Still.

”Yeah, I know he sucks and is statistically the worst starting QB in the NFL since he was drafted, but no one else would be an upgrade in my personal opinion, so we should keep starting him.”