We have a winner here.

[carolinarolls]

Whether you hate hurney or love him, defend Riv or are asking for his dismissal, or wish Richardson would sell the team to some "other" mythical owner out there, one thing keeps getting overlooked.

This team is full of talent. They have put together a winning team. The starts seem to be standing around scratching their butts and waiting for the other shoe to drop most of the time and then start pressing when its too late making the outcome even more embarrassing but this is a good football team.

On paper.

We all (mostly all) thought so during camp. On paper we are strong and have lots to look forward to.

So what happened? Why can these guys not execute?

Say top-down all you want, and I get it, but by most accounts, fan, pundit, parrot, or otherwise The org. built a pretty nice football team for the 12-13 season.

At some point the guys on the field have to be accountable. It took ALL of them to screw it up so far and it will take ALL of them to turn it around so the blame right now is on ALL of them from where I sit.

You buy tix and plan trips based on what the org. builds. When you show up and the team takes a dump on the field you don't go back and blame the org. That wouldn't be too smart would it?

[Rubi]

If this team was full of talent we would have won more games than we have the past 5 or so seasons....

We overrate these guys....there are bright spots...but top to bottom it's a weak roster that finds ways to lose

I'm a huge fan of the Panthers. But I call it like I see it. (4 winning seasons)

[rayzor]

good execution can make up for a lot of bad play calling.

if the players can't pull their own weight, there's no game plan or coaching that will work. and yelling at them isn't going to work. it's on the players to make it happen. the coaches need to be doing better in their game planning, play calling, and in game adjustments, but the players also have to be doing better. they've all got to quit making so many boneheaded mistakes.

[Brooklyn Bully]

The team is not as good as you think it is... even on paper. The D-line is not good, the DBs are not good, two of our LBs are coming off injury, we don't run it like we used to, the O-line is average, our WRs are average at best after Smitty. Not too sure what paper you've been reading, but it obviously was printed in Carolina blue ink.

[panfan32]

Coaching Mistakes player mistakes

1. Benching A proven FS over a 4 backup FS that cant cover in the passing game. Martin had tackling issues last year but that can be coached if you want the man.

2. Dc is not a true DC and is no more than an assistant DC. End of subject.

3. The run option is crap. Last year it worked due to lack of scouting on Cam and what he could bring to the game. Chud needs to change things up each and every season instead of the same plays from last season. DC's have had plenty of time to scout our offense and they have built a good defense for it.

4. Homerun passes. This needs to stop. Yes we all love excitement. and we all love the big plays. However, you cannot come out and try to through the damn deep ball every single passing down. they need to start off slow with short routes to get came in a comfort zone.

5. Defense. Beason is just as guilty as anyone. WHERE IN THE HELL DID THE TACKLEING GO WITH THIS TEAM? Since when is anyone trained to do nothing but shoulder tackles, Where in the hell is the wrap tackles gone to!

6. Benching a 2 year starting CB over an unproven rookie that has since blown as many games as the 4 year backup FS. Captain may not be the best cover CB but he’s not afraid to tackle or take a risk to stop a big play.

7. Draft issues. We knew we had issues this offseason with the secondary and the Dline. But we draft a OLB which is the one position on defense we are deep with talent. Yes TD may not have made his 3 come back this season. But he had some good talent that setup last season and produced. Senn for one to me proved last season he can play this game at a high level and he’s better than just a special team player.

8. Running game is in the shitter. We paid these guys al this money; let them run the damn ball. We paid good money for a strong FB let him in the damn game and run block for a change. Yes we have issues on our Oline. Rookie RG, and a second year RT. Now our C is done for the season. There are ways to game plan around your weak points in any position.

9. Players... Players need to come together as a damn team and stop looking at each other every time something goes wrong. I see it all the time on defense. Those players are confused out there in the secondary. A lot of blown coverage and this includes the LB's as well. this leads me back to coaches. If the players are confused about what coverage they have whether it be zone or man, there’s an issue with coaching.

[R0CKnR0LLA]

if a winning team is 1-4 on the year and hasn't been over .500 since 2008 then fug I'd hate to see what a losing team looks like

[SZ James (banned)]

ITT- We learn the definition of confirmation bias.

[CatMan72]

It's true, players have to execute and that's partially to blame for our 1-4 record this year... but I would argue that we don't have nearly enough talent/experience on defense and that's our biggest problem right now and has been for the past few years since the '08 purge.

It doesn't matter how good/bad our offense is, we averaged 27 points per game last year and came out with a 6-10 record because we couldn't stop the opponent from scoring more. The other telling stat is that when Cam throws a pick we lose.... so you're telling me that we can't win a game if our 2nd year QB throws at least one interception??? We can't win a game when our young QB throws a pick because our defense is crap.

[Who Said What?]

good execution can make up for a lot of bad play calling.

if the players can't pull their own weight, there's no game plan or coaching that will work. and yelling at them isn't going to work. it's on the players to make it happen. the coaches need to be doing better in their game planning, play calling, and in game adjustments, but the players also have to be doing better. they've all got to quit making so many boneheaded mistakes.

I feel you because if Smitty is fumbling reverses and D-lo is getting the ball ripped out after securing it on running plays then we are not that good. Those are two of our most talented and well paid players and this year they have costs us momentum in those games. We are a super shell of a d-line compared to what we had for a few years at the beginning of the Fox Era. We are talking lumps, but I see the potential. I also agree the coaches have to prepare better.

[Marguide]

1. Benching A proven FS over a 4 backup FS that cant cover in the passing game.

2. Dc is not a true DC and is no more than an assistant DC. End of subject.

3. The run option is crap. Last year it worked due to lack of scouting on Cam and what he could bring to the game. Chud needs to change things up each and every season instead of the same plays from last season.

4. Homerun passes. This needs to stop.

5. Defense. Beason is just as guilty as anyone. WHERE IN THE HELL DID THE TACKLEING GO WITH THIS TEAM?

6. Benching a 2 year starting CB over an unproven rookie that has since blown as many games as the 4 year backup FS.

7. Draft issues. We knew we had issues this offseason with the secondary and the Dline. But we draft a OLB which is the one position on defense we are deep with talent. Yes TD may not have made his 3 come back this season. But he had some good talent that setup last season and produced. Senn for one to me proved last season he can play this game at a high level and he’s better than just a special team player.

8. Running game is in the shitter. We paid these guys al this money; let them run the damn ball.

9. Players... Players need to come together as a damn team and stop looking at each other every time something goes wrong. I see it all the time on defense. Those players are confused out there in the secondary. A lot of blown coverage and this includes the LB's as well. this leads me back to coaches. If the players are confused about what coverage they have whether it be zone or man, there’s an issue with coaching.

1. Martin was horrible last year in coverage as well. We didn't make a mistake by replacing him. We made a mistake by replacing him with someone worse.

2. It would not be hard to argue that McD is our best coach right now. At least the D has shown some progress as we get deeper into the year.

3. Go back to this time last year, and we might have run the read option twice per game. Now, we are running it 10 to 12 times a game. It's not that we need to change from what we did last year, it's that we need to get back to what we did last year, with more I formation and a better balance of under center vs shotgun formations. It was good enough to get us to the #7 offense last year, so tweak it, don't blow it up.

4. We're a vertical offense. We are going to take deep shots.

5. Yes, tackling is an issue. Beason was one of the worst offenders.

6. Captain was hot crap last year. Going back to him would be a major mistake. We should have done a 1 year vet signing and eased Norman in, rather than just throwing him into the deep end.

7. We didn't draft an OLB. We drafted a MLB.

8. Yes, run more, especially out of the I formation.

9. I think the players are as confused as we are, and they are playing like it. When you don't understand or have confidence in the system, you don't perform well. These comments apply much more to the offense than the defense.

[thefuzz]

I love the "all this talent" argument.

We have a couple of good RB's.

A couple of good LB's.

One good corner.

One good DE.

One good LT.

One good C.

One good QB.

One aging but good WR.

The only player on this team that is a top 5 talent at his position is Kalil right now.

[Rubi]

This team will turn things around when we start drafting superior athletes. Tall, strong, fast guys (Seattle defense???) and when we utilize a more consistent offense. Traditional sets can show up every week. Power running, play action, spread formations, boot leg....all those things we are capable of doing with our personnel....

The read option is bullshit football

[Guest Tom Cat]

Coaching Mistakes player mistakes

1. Benching A proven FS over a 4 backup FS that cant cover in the passing game. Martin had tackling issues last year but that can be coached if you want the man.

2. Dc is not a true DC and is no more than an assistant DC. End of subject.

3. The run option is crap. Last year it worked due to lack of scouting on Cam and what he could bring to the game. Chud needs to change things up each and every season instead of the same plays from last season. DC's have had plenty of time to scout our offense and they have built a good defense for it.

4. Homerun passes. This needs to stop. Yes we all love excitement. and we all love the big plays. However, you cannot come out and try to through the damn deep ball every single passing down. they need to start off slow with short routes to get came in a comfort zone.

5. Defense. Beason is just as guilty as anyone. WHERE IN THE HELL DID THE TACKLEING GO WITH THIS TEAM? Since when is anyone trained to do nothing but shoulder tackles, Where in the hell is the wrap tackles gone to!

6. Benching a 2 year starting CB over an unproven rookie that has since blown as many games as the 4 year backup FS. Captain may not be the best cover CB but he’s not afraid to tackle or take a risk to stop a big play.

7. Draft issues. We knew we had issues this offseason with the secondary and the Dline. But we draft a OLB which is the one position on defense we are deep with talent. Yes TD may not have made his 3 come back this season. But he had some good talent that setup last season and produced. Senn for one to me proved last season he can play this game at a high level and he’s better than just a special team player.

8. Running game is in the shitter. We paid these guys al this money; let them run the damn ball. We paid good money for a strong FB let him in the damn game and run block for a change. Yes we have issues on our Oline. Rookie RG, and a second year RT. Now our C is done for the season. There are ways to game plan around your weak points in any position.

9. Players... Players need to come together as a damn team and stop looking at each other every time something goes wrong. I see it all the time on defense. Those players are confused out there in the secondary. A lot of blown coverage and this includes the LB's as well. this leads me back to coaches. If the players are confused about what coverage they have whether it be zone or man, there’s an issue with coaching.

too small couldnt read

ts;cr

[Guest Tom Cat]

I love the "all this talent" argument.

We have a couple of good RB's.

A couple of good LB's.

One good corner.

One good DE.

One good LT.

One good C.

One good QB.

One aging but good WR.

The only player on this team that is a top 5 talent at his position is Kalil right now.

Ive been saying it for a while now - just cause youre gullible enough to pay top money to some average guys doesnt make them some sort of elite game changing superstars.