For those of you that want to cut Jordan Gross...

[Zod]

Top 5 left tackle?

How many plane crashes did I miss last night?

He isn't top 5 but he isn't bottom 5 either. He is in the middle of the pack and not a number one need right now if we can get a NFL caliber coaching staff in with a pro level offensive scheme.

Having Cam from the shotgun so much right now is tough on the tackles who have to protect for a larger radius around the QB. Thats much more footwork than under center.

[JawnyBlaze]

I did some research on how much free agent DTs have been costing. Here are the guys that are at least "good" in my opinion and how much they got (if I could find their numbers):

2012

Calais Campbell (elite): 5 years, $55 mill, $31 mil guaranteed

Paul Soliai (very good): franchise tagged at $12.3 mil

Red Bryant (good): 5 years, $35 mil, $14.5 mil guaranteed

2011

Brandon Mebane (very good): 5 years $25 mil (Seahawks got a steal with him)

Richard Seymour (very good): 2 years $30 mil

2010

Vince Wilfork (elite): 5 years, $40 mil, $25 mil guaranteed (have to believe he would have required more money to move and likely play for a lesser team)

Casey Hampton (very good, but old): 3 years, $21 mil (ditto)

2009

Albert Haynesworth (believed to be elite at the time): 7 years, $100 mil, $41 mil guaranteed (disclaimer, this was a retarded contract that shouldn't have much weight attached to it in this argument)

That's just what I could find. Those are some pretty significant numbers. We wouldn't be able to afford any of those guys.

[Marguide]

I would be shocked if Gross is not on the squad next year.

Couple years ago Big Cat designated him a core player in an interview. Unless he completely implodes, it won't happen.

If JR is going to decide who is on the roster and who isn't we might as well have kept Marty Hurney.

JR has to let whoever is the new GM make his own decisions. If he doesn't, this franchise is in deep trouble.

[Awesomeness!!]

He isn't top 5 but he isn't bottom 5 either. He is in the middle of the pack and not a number one need right now if we can get a NFL caliber coaching staff in with a pro level offensive scheme.

Having Cam from the shotgun so much right now is tough on the tackles who have to protect for a larger radius around the QB. Thats much more footwork than under center.

Thats my point. Anybody else, and Cam would be on IR right now..

[bleys]

Come on now thats been the case since 03. One down year doesnt make him a bum. You cut him and he will end up winning rings in Philly..

says every huddler about every player that has ever been cut.. lol

[MHS831]

Gross has the 2nd highest average salary for a left tackle, behind only Joe Thomas. His cap hit is $11.5 million. That is only reasonable if you are the best at the position, and Jordan is not.

LT's typically don't hit FA if they are any good, so if we decide to replace Gross we will probably have to do it through the draft. One thing is clear though. Whether we re-negotiate his salary or trade him or cut him, Jordan is going to have to be ready to play for less money. I don't see any way the Panthers or any other team ponies up $11+ million for Gross in 2013.

I thought I read he was sitting around $8 million. Heck, if he is at $11.5, I agree. I also agree that he is going to have to play for less money. I am not sure he would take a pay cut to stay on a losing team-I would cut that figure in half to keep him.

I am actually in favor of replacing Gross now for a few reasons:

1. He is getting old .

2. We could sign 2 free agents and pay a top draft pick with the room he would create by leaving.

3. He is a leader who is engrained in the losing culture. Not his fault, but losing affects your brain.

Gross should be good enough to trade to a contender after a reworked contract is in place. It would be nice to add a 4th rounder, 2 free agents, and draft a LT.

[Marguide]

I thought I read he was sitting around $8 million. Heck, if he is at $11.5, I agree. I also agree that he is going to have to play for less money.

Here's where the difference comes from...

His salary this year is indeed $8.5 million. However, he received a $2 million roster bonus as well. The other million is the cap charge allocated annually from his original signing bonus.

Everything stays the same next year except his base goes up by $200,000, so the hit next year is $11.7 million.

One option would be to re-sign him to a 3 or 4 year deal with a signing bonus in the $10 million range and non-guaranteed salaries in the range of $5 million per year average, with year 1 lower and year 3 higher. He'd still be well paid and we would get some nice savings against the cap.

Should we then replace him in 2014, we could do it without a big cap charge.

A lot depends on what they want to do with the 1st round pick. As you correctly stated, you typically need to spend a high 1st to get a top notch LT in the draft.

[MHS831]

Here's where the difference comes from...

His salary this year is indeed $8.5 million. However, he received a $2 million roster bonus as well. The other million is the cap charge allocated annually from his original signing bonus.

Everything stays the same next year except his base goes up by $200,000, so the hit next year is $11.7 million.

One option would be to re-sign him to a 3 or 4 year deal with a signing bonus in the $10 million range and non-guaranteed salaries in the range of $5 million per year average, with year 1 lower and year 3 higher. He'd still be well paid and we would get some nice savings against the cap.

Should we then replace him in 2014, we could do it without a big cap charge.

A lot depends on what they want to do with the 1st round pick. As you correctly stated, you typically need to spend a high 1st to get a top notch LT in the draft.

I count on guys like you to keep me aware of the cap stuff--I just do not get the math (do not want to learn either). Thanks

[jarhead]

Here's where the difference comes from...

His salary this year is indeed $8.5 million. However, he received a $2 million roster bonus as well. The other million is the cap charge allocated annually from his original signing bonus.

Everything stays the same next year except his base goes up by $200,000, so the hit next year is $11.7 million.

One option would be to re-sign him to a 3 or 4 year deal with a signing bonus in the $10 million range and non-guaranteed salaries in the range of $5 million per year average, with year 1 lower and year 3 higher. He'd still be well paid and we would get some nice savings against the cap.

Should we then replace him in 2014, we could do it without a big cap charge.

A lot depends on what they want to do with the 1st round pick. As you correctly stated, you typically need to spend a high 1st to get a top notch LT in the draft.

You are good with working the cap.They ought to hire you.

Yep it comes down to can we restructure him? Do we want to for go drafting a LT for a DT with our 1st pick? Or bite the bullet and get that stud LT if he is still available? I think much will hinge on who is there with our number 1 pick.

[LiQuiD]

I've just gotta point out the humor in the placement of the two words "rings" and "Philly". Jesus christ, that's a good one!

[Munch4455]

Don't know if anyone posted this, but here is an idea of how bad our O-Line has played this year, as a whole, Gross definately included.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

When running over the LT(Gross), we are the worst team in the NFL. We are 26th in pass protection, a lot of that would end up falling on Gross. Also 31st in overall run blocking for the entire line. There are a lot of problems with this line, and Gross is definately one of them. You can't just hold on to the past and loyalties without seeing the current situation, thats John Fox mentality and where has that gotten us?

[Guild]

No, these days he's serviceable at best.

It is painful to see the decline of one of the better players in recent memory.

[MadHatter]

Our RT situation is marginal at best so our top need is a LT?

Yes it is. Gross is on the down side of his career and it would benefit him tremendously to slide him to the RT position and draft a stud LT.

[bigjohn]

If we can get him to not commit 33 false starts and holding penalties a game, then he might be useful.

Not sure where you got that stat. I looked it up and found Gross listed for 4 penalties this year (www.nflpenalties,com). Site seems pretty legit, but your sources may be better.