Still in for Rivera~

[Mr. Scot]

Just because players are frustrated, does not necessarily mean Rivera has lost the locker room. Plenty of teams have rebounded from frustrating seasons.

IMO, this whole season comes down to 2 points. 1. Shula and his style of offense. 2. The talent this offense has/doesn't have.

Upgrade the OC and offensive talent, and maybe we can score some more points. To me, that would add some much needed enthusiasm to the offense, as well as taking a poo ton of pressure off the defense.

In short. Just maybe Rivera and Gman understand that Shula and his offense, along with the dearth of offensive talent in general, have more to do with our underwhelming season than anything else.

We as fans can react anyway we wish. Calling for heads to roll is our right. Unfortunately, the FO can't think that way. Giving Rivera the tools he needs to succeed could very well fix our ails.

Rivera may be conservative by nature. And he may never go for a wide open, pass happy offense. But he may be fine with an OC that has the imagination to give his players plays that work to their advantage.

tl/dr version. Get rid of Shula. Upgrade the offensive talent. Then see what Rivera can do.

 

My issues with the coaching staff are less about player attitude and more about inability to properly evaluate and use the talent we do have.

 

I mean really, who sends Jason Avant and Jerricho Cotchery deep, especially when all we need to convert are 2 or 3 yards?

 

Rivera has watched this stuff happen all year, but now suddenly the Eagles game is "an eye opener"?  Ugh

[PantherFanOne]

My issues with the coaching staff are less about player attitude and more about inability to properly evaluate and use the talent we do have.

 

I mean really, who sends Jason Avant and Jerricho Cotchery deep, especially when all we need to convert are 2 or 3 yards?

 

Rivera has watched this stuff happen all year, but now suddenly the Eagles game is "an eye opener"?  Ugh

 

 

When a coach uses a player properly and he fails,it's the players fault. When a coach puts players in situations over their head and they fail,it's the coaches fault.

All to often this season, the latter has been the case,just another example why Rivera and Shula need to be replaced with a competant offensive minded HC and a OC that knows the trend of the modern NFL.

[Dexterity]

Considering the mess left in Hurney's wake with the cap and lack of talent, I'm not even upset with the team's record under Rivera. 6-10 and 7-9 were good seasons with the roster he had. 12-4 and #2 defense with a patchwork roster last season was, and still is, unbelievable. I still don't understand how they won that many games. Hell, I'm even okay being at 3-7-1 this year. Our team just isn't good. You have to look at it objectively. We just don't have the talent. Whether it's due to cap issues, poor drafting, or whatever else.

I don't think people understand how big of a mess we were after 2010. We were in just as bad of shape as Jacksonville and Oakland. When you look at how terrible our roster was and how much money was tied up long-term, you could argue we were in worse shape. The difference is we lucked out and got Cam Newton & Luke Kuechly while they got stuck with Carr/McClain & Gabbert/Blackmon, etc.

However, I have a big problem with the way we are losing. The past four seasons Rivera has made idiotic decisions at the end of games. He's lost at least a dozen games because of his end of game management. Whether it's playing soft prevent zone on D or going limp dick on offense. I understand making a mistake or two and losing sometimes, but he does it over and over and over again/ This year we are also getting blown out. He needs to go. I like Rivera, he's a nice guy and tremendous football mind, but he's not a Head Coach. Rivera is a great Xs & Os guy but he struggles in other key HC aspects. The fact that he has put our incomplete teams in a position to win 80% of our games since he got here speaks to that. That alone shows he's a great coach. But his stupid management at the end shows he is not a Head Coach. It sucks, because he is the best defensive football coach in the NFL. I don't care what people say about the Ryan brothers, Carroll, or whoever. Rivera will go somewhere else as a DC and build yet another elite D. I just wish he could've grasped the other elements of being a HC.

Someone else is gonna come in just as we are getting out of cap hell, and loaded with cornerstone players, and really look like a genius.

[ThinkAboutIt]

I am fully with Rivera & Shula up to the end of this season.

After and based on their resuslts this is another story.

Why would anyone but a sycophant ever be "fully in" with the people in charge?

[Cat Fanboy]

The Huddle seems so vitriolic to anyone with a different opinion than those shouting and repeating themselves over and over on their own opinion.  Just because you are certain doesn't mean you are right.  

 

We are losing and everyone wants to blame someone - the head coach is always the scapegoat (right or wrong).  For me it comes down to how much am I going to forgive, what are my options if I do make a change, and how much is truly his fault.

 

Probably safe to say we all (?) want Shula gone and most (?) didn't want him to begin with.  I bought in that promoting him would not slow Cam's development.  Hindsight I was wrong and I've no doubt Ron feels the same.  Utilizing/evaluating the players is another directly on the coach - putting them in the best position to win.  Avant - heck - Underwood would have been fine if used correctly.

 

Gettleman did what he could with what he had.  Dominant front four makes a weaker secondary better than they are...we lost the front four this year and...we know the story.  I didnt see anyone to go after Oline- not that much of an upgrade..obviously any would have been better...and I thought our WR this year looked better than last years.  I still like the way he brings in talent.

 

[CPantherKing]

I'm with the OP...I know it's not as fun as writing O line in every thread or wishing for losses but this is going to take more than one season to fix the cap issue, and last year was same coach and it wasn't too bad, hell it was riverboat baby...

We need the team that played in the second half of the ATL game...not the one in the first half. I'm looking forward to kicking the Vikings butts and getting on roll.

and not showing up for games is BS, yeah our team sucks right now but I'm still with them ...and always will.

You mean the second half offense that cam did not even relay the coaches play call and simply called his own play. Players including Olsen were wanting the original play call from the coaches and Cam never gave it. The result was offensive production and a TD.

The coaching is the weakest part of this team. Even weaker than the OL. When the coaches get out of the way of their star players, this offense will produce.

[CelibatePimp]

I don't mind keeping him but he better not be pulling that poo he did on Sunday and against Cincy anymore. He needs to grow a pair.

[CelibatePimp]

You mean the second half offense that cam did not even relay the coaches play call and simply called his own play. Players including Olsen were wanting the original play call from the coaches and Cam never gave it. The result was offensive production and a TD.

The coaching is the weakest part of this team. Even weaker than the OL. When the coaches get out of the way of their star players, this offense will produce.

 

How do you know Cam called his own play? If he did, then he decided to run it three times before that field goal, why are we blaming the coaches then?

[Rise of The Hive]

I feel sorry for you.

[iamhubby1]

My issues with the coaching staff are less about player attitude and more about inability to properly evaluate and use the talent we do have.

 

I mean really, who sends Jason Avant and Jerricho Cotchery deep, especially when all we need to convert are 2 or 3 yards?

 

Rivera has watched this stuff happen all year, but now suddenly the Eagles game is "an eye opener"?  Ugh

Avant and Cotch have decent size and speed, and have good hands. They may not be the fastest, but you could believe that they could win a one on one situation. With what we have, they are almost the best option for those plays. Now that Philly is back, he will get those shots. Folks complain when we don't go deep. Then complain about it when we do.

The last year and a half Cam was taking those check-downs. Lately, he is lucky to have a check-down to go to.

When our Offense is working, we throw a lot on 1st down. That play has gone away.

Crossing patterns are a great way for guys to get separation. We rarely use them.

I could go on, but you get the gist. Our Offense is in a funk. Nobody likes it, and nobody trusts it. Part of that is the lack of talent, and part is the play calling. Until both of those are fixed, I think Rivera is in a bind. He can't coach the way he wants because he feels he only has half a team.

Fix the Offense for Rivera. Then see what he can do. He is never going to be balls to the wall Ron. But give him an Offense he trusts, and maybe we see a different Ron.

I don't see blaming a HC for having half a team. It has to be disheartening for him, and the players. Gman must fix the Offense. Talent and OC both need to be upgraded. It just isn't fair to judge Rivera on half a team.

Yes the HC is the main man. And in normal circumstances he deserves the brunt of the blame. I just don't see this team fitting that situation. These are not normal times round here.

[Snake]

You're that type of guy that thinks herpes is not so bad.

[Mol3m4n]

Avant and Cotch have decent size and speed, and have good hands. They may not be the fastest, but you could believe that they could win a one on one situation. With what we have, they are almost the best option for those plays. Now that Philly is back, he will get those shots. Folks complain when we don't go deep. Then complain about it when we do.

The last year and a half Cam was taking those check-downs. Lately, he is lucky to have a check-down to go to.

When our Offense is working, we throw a lot on 1st down. That play has gone away.

Crossing patterns are a great way for guys to get separation. We rarely use them.

I could go on, but you get the gist. Our Offense is in a funk. Nobody likes it, and nobody trusts it. Part of that is the lack of talent, and part is the play calling. Until both of those are fixed, I think Rivera is in a bind. He can't coach the way he wants because he feels he only has half a team.

Fix the Offense for Rivera. Then see what he can do. He is never going to be balls to the wall Ron. But give him an Offense he trusts, and maybe we see a different Ron.

I don't see blaming a HC for having half a team. It has to be disheartening for him, and the players. Gman must fix the Offense. Talent and OC both need to be upgraded. It just isn't fair to judge Rivera on half a team.

Yes the HC is the main man. And in normal circumstances he deserves the brunt of the blame. I just don't see this team fitting that situation. These are not normal times round here.

 

They went deep to Cotchery and Avant when Philly was healthy. Not to mention option runs with the two of them.

 

[Beast_3000]

Wanting to keep Rivera is the equivilant of wanting to keep your girlfriend well past the relationship expiration date.

She threw a brick through your window when she saw your hug your cousin..... Yet you still make excuses for her. Ooooo it's ok she didn't know she was family.

Your girl gained 80 pounds and refuses to see the error of her ways. She just won't stop eating ........yet she has such a wonderful personality

Just let it go. He sucks.

[FootballMaestro]

The Huddle seems so vitriolic to anyone with a different opinion than those shouting and repeating themselves over and over on their own opinion.  Just because you are certain doesn't mean you are right.  

 

We are losing and everyone wants to blame someone - the head coach is always the scapegoat (right or wrong).  For me it comes down to how much am I going to forgive, what are my options if I do make a change, and how much is truly his fault.

 

Probably safe to say we all (?) want Shula gone and most (?) didn't want him to begin with.  I bought in that promoting him would not slow Cam's development.  Hindsight I was wrong and I've no doubt Ron feels the same.  Utilizing/evaluating the players is another directly on the coach - putting them in the best position to win.  Avant - heck - Underwood would have been fine if used correctly.

 

Gettleman did what he could with what he had.  Dominant front four makes a weaker secondary better than they are...we lost the front four this year and...we know the story.  I didnt see anyone to go after Oline- not that much of an upgrade..obviously any would have been better...and I thought our WR this year looked better than last years.  I still like the way he brings in talent.

 

Thanks for your "differing opinion"

 

It's all good.

 

Regarding the bolded Shula comments: So isn't Rivera responsible for that/Shula, ultimately?

 

Speaking about Shula: Do you think Rivera's a good game time coach, and manager of his assistant coaches and coordinators to begin with?

 

I don't. So to me, it really doesn't matter what Shula does (along with the fact it was Rivera's call on him to begin with), cause Rivera's been learning on the job from day one and still makes almost all of the same mistakes.

 

So for this reason, I think he should. Surely, you must feel the same, but were just giving him the benefit of the doubt, not taking the question seriously?...No?