Panthers Not Set At Wide Receiver

[jdpanther5]

The cap can be manipulated, but like anything else in life, only in moderation. Base salaries can be manipulated, but bonuses can't, so at some point you have to pay the piper.

Say we made a big signing, 5 years/$50 million with $15 million of it being a signing bonus. Going into year 3 the player has underwhelmed and isn't worth that $10m/year anymore. So you convert $6m of his base into a bonus. Reducing the cap hit by $4m that year but pushing that much into the future.

Another year goes by, and because you restructured the deal last season it now costs as much to cut the player as it does to keep him, but you still wanna make space. You're like "fug it, the cap doesn't matter" so you restructure again: $6m is again converted, but now you've also got $2m from the year before.

Then in the last year of the contract, that player that wasn't worth $10m 2 years ago now costs that + another $5m from multiple restructures.

The cap DOES matter, or else we wouldn't have been stuck beneath two monster RB contracts for so long. If all you're looking at is the short-term though then sure, I guess it doesn't matter.

[MechaZain]

I don't feel comfortable signing our #2 WR past round one. We're not in a position to go bargain hunting.

[KSpan]

Cotchery brings experience to the group and is a good role model for the young receivers on the team. With as many rookies as we have in this offence, we need Cotchery in the same way we need Harper in the secondary. People will trash because of what they see on the field from a camera 100 yards away, but what he can add before the snap and on the bench is important for KB/Philly and whoever we draft.

This. I said in another thread that his value is probably more as a teacher and mentor than an every-down WR at this point, and unless the team adds a strong veteran receiver I don't see Cotchery being cut. The wild card, however, is the 'Proehl factor' and the fact that the bottom receivers (Bersin/Webb/Presley last season) play a lot of ST... Ginn will be returning kicks, but he sure won't be on the coverage teams.

[MV%doe]

What exactly has Harvin done the past few years to warrant your belief in him, besides his talent?

Big plays, forcing defenses to account for him, he's a match up nightmare. Again I'm breaking my rules, his pass headache issues, poor lockerroom, a ego that bigger than zods, other injurys(concussions etc)

Panthers are basically the only team still running zone read, with stew(healthy) and harvin........ that's a huge problem form defenses. Plus dare I say ginn gets injuried, he'd can be a game changer at returner. Those smoke routes would come back.

Cam, stew, olsen, KB, and harvin........ that's alllllll sort of problems at many different ways too.

No worries, he'll be be a pat.

[FootballMaestro]

Big plays, forcing defenses to account for him, he's a match up nightmare. Again I'm breaking my rules, his pass headache issues, poor lockerroom, a ego that bigger than zods, other injurys(concussions etc)

Panthers are basically the only team still running zone read, with stew(healthy) and harvin........ that's a huge problem form defenses. Plus dare I say ginn gets injuried, he'd can be a game changer at returner. Those smoke routes would come back.

Cam, stew, olsen, KB, and harvin........ that's alllllll sort of problems at many different ways too.

No worries, he'll be be a pat.

 

I actually asked you "what Pecvy Harvin HAD DONE the past few years", not what he can do, but ok. LOL.

 

It appears to me,  not much. Everyone who supports this notion is seemingly going off his Potential.

 

3 teams in 3 years. Not saying he maybe can't help the Panthers (just look at Ginn before he came to Charlotte). It' It's possible. However, I don't see him as a Home Run (I'm sure the Panthers don't either). Not at all.

 

But I hear ya. And keep the faith!

[Jeremy Igo]

 a ego that bigger than zods,

 

 

 

[KSpan]

This is massively overstated here on this board, as is evidenced by the teams who continually find success in both FA and in games each year despite being up against the purported cap.

Here's a good article I've posted before from former Packers VP and cap manager Andrew Brandt, on the "salary cap myth." It's an article I've considered putting in its own thread.

Essentially, he discusses how the cap is so easy to manipulate that it doesn't really matter when building a team.

http://mmqb.si.com/2015/02/25/nfl-salary-cap-myth-los-angeles-stadium/

The 'best' teams are the ones whose roster is full of young, cheap talent, allowing them to sign the occasional big-pricetag free agent if they choose. However, it tales time and someone at the helm who can consistently spot such talent before that becomes possible, and this is where Gentleman only being in his third year come in.

Take the Packers, for example. At the start of last year's TC, only 8 of the 90 players had spent time on another roster outside of Green Bay. That is exactly the model that works in this NFL - rember the Seahawks going 7-9 and making the playoffs under Carroll? That was the beginning of their transition into this model, and they are now a perennial powerhouse able to snag a few expensive players as they see fit.

Source on Green Bay comment:http://www.packers.com/news-and-events/article-ask-vic/article-1/The-Packers-are-a-homegrown-bunch/1581d643-efb3-4156-abef-4c7712ae7401

[iamhubby1]

This is massively overstated here on this board, as is evidenced by the teams who continually find success in both FA and in games each year despite being up against the purported cap.

Here's a good article I've posted before from former Packers VP and cap manager Andrew Brandt, on the "salary cap myth." It's an article I've considered putting in its own thread.

Essentially, he discusses how the cap is so easy to manipulate that it doesn't really matter when building a team.

http://mmqb.si.com/2015/02/25/nfl-salary-cap-myth-los-angeles-stadium/

If you can stay away from paying too much guaranteed money, sure you can manipulate the cap. The more star players you have, the more guaranteed you probably have to pay.

Drafting well puts you in the position to reload without having to guarantee money to your better players. When the "Next guy up" has talent. It gives you options.

The cap is just that, a limit on what you payroll can reach. You can manipulate salaries, but you still have to stay under that limit.

 

 

Big plays, forcing defenses to account for him, he's a match up nightmare. Again I'm breaking my rules, his pass headache issues, poor lockerroom, a ego that bigger than zods, other injurys(concussions etc)

Panthers are basically the only team still running zone read, with stew(healthy) and harvin........ that's a huge problem form defenses. Plus dare I say ginn gets injuried, he'd can be a game changer at returner. Those smoke routes would come back.

Cam, stew, olsen, KB, and harvin........ that's alllllll sort of problems at many different ways too.

No worries, he'll be be a pat.

Harvin has huge potential. That is a given. But.....he hasn't shown much of that potential in the last 3 years. He ain't getting anywhere near 10mil, so we could offer him a decent deal. Just not sure we are the franchise that would be willing to take a chance on him getting back to form.

If you trust him, go for it. That is just one huge IF.

[Growl]

The 'best' teams are the ones whose roster is full of young, cheap talent, allowing them to sign the occasional big-pricetag free agent if they choose. However, it tales time and someone at the helm who can consistently spot such talent before that becomes possible, and this is where Gentleman only being in his third year come in.

Take the Packers, for example. At the start of last year's TC, only 8 of the 90 players had spent time on another roster outside of Green Bay. That is exactly the model that works in this NFL - rember the Seahawks going 7-9 and making the playoffs under Carroll? That was the beginning of their transition into this model, and they are now a perennial powerhouse able to snag a few expensive players as they see fit.

Source on Green Bay comment:http://www.packers.com/news-and-events/article-ask-vic/article-1/The-Packers-are-a-homegrown-bunch/1581d643-efb3-4156-abef-4c7712ae7401

Lol at people who desperately run to the Packers to try and back this stance.I know that's it's tough to find teams that back the stance of penny pinching greed the team has shown over the year, but let's at leat avoid this argument because it's a strawman that bursts into flames when you look at the leagues best teams

Let's do a list of big time teams who are active in free agency every single year

New England (reigning Super Bowl champions, 6 Super Bowl appearances with current philosophy)

Seattle Seahawks (Two time conference champions, Super Bowl Championship last season)

Denver Broncos ( perennially deep post season contenders, Super Bowl appearance last season)

San Francisco 49ers (have consistently been one of league's most stacked teams, recent Super Bowl appearance, 3 straight conference championship appearances)

Indianapolis Colts (young team, consistently great, consistently make deep postseason runs without fluking in with a losing record)

The notion that we're "doing it the way it's meant to be done!" because you can isolate a team that oh so coincidentally has the best quarterback in the game is a laughable argument.

Guess what? We're doing it wrong, and until management is willing to finally give up on stop trying to be the 70's Steelers and actually try and be a dominant, desperate, bold contender in today's game, we will stay where we are at.

[PandaPancake]

Some just keep talking and looking more foolish

[BelgianPantherFan]

And for every team that's active in FA and gets results, you find a team that keeps making splashes in FA and is worth jack poo.

A football team is more than signing the best players, it's making the best team out of the players.

[Growl]

Some just keep talking and looking more foolish

Why don't you stop talking then

[Growl]

And for every team that's active in FA and gets results, you find a team that keeps making splashes in FA and is worth jack poo.

A football team is more than signing the best players, it's making the best team out of the players.

Cute cliche', but all it says is that the teams that are ran well identify the proper talent and become annually dominant, the teams whose staff don't have an eye for talent spend money poorly on poor talent, and the teams that do neither wallow in their mediocrity, occasionally having a good year but mostly just finishing 7-9 or 7-8-1 every other year while their fanbase slowly begins to accept the mediocrity while accepting every outdated cliche' on team philosophy it's management churns out because it sounds real good

[iamhubby1]

Lol at people who desperately run to the Packers to try and back this stance.I know that's it's tough to find teams that back the stance of penny pinching greed the team has shown over the year, but let's at leat avoid this argument because it's a strawman that bursts into flames when you look at the leagues best teams

Let's do a list of big time teams who are active in free agency every single year

New England (reigning Super Bowl champions, 6 Super Bowl appearances with current philosophy)

Seattle Seahawks (Two time conference champions, Super Bowl Championship last season)

Denver Broncos ( perennially deep post season contenders, Super Bowl appearance last season)

San Francisco 49ers (have consistently been one of league's most stacked teams, recent Super Bowl appearance, 3 straight conference championship appearances)

Indianapolis Colts (young team, consistently great, consistently make deep postseason runs without fluking in with a losing record)

The notion that we're "doing it the way it's meant to be done!" because you can isolate a team that oh so coincidentally has the best quarterback in the game is a laughable argument.

Guess what? We're doing it wrong, and until management is willing to finally give up on stop trying to be the 70's Steelers and actually try and be a dominant, desperate, bold contender in today's game, we will stay where we are at.

Actually, the bottom line is the fact we now have a football guy running the show. Something that has been missing for the last 10 years or so.

And that guy has only been on the job for 2 years. You cannot compare us to those teams just yet. Well, YOU can, but it is an unjust assessment. Also, the Seahawks have only been good since they got Wilson, so they shouldn't be on your list anyway.

So your assertion that we are "Doing it wrong" is premature. Give Gman a couple more years before you call him a failure. Hellz, we ain't seen what he can do when he has some money to play with yet. He took over a talent depleted team, with no money. I think calling him a failure after only 2 years is just unfair.

Frustration of the past is clouding your judgment of the future.