Is Rivera cutthroat enough to make the tough decisions?

[tukafan21]

I'm not making this thread to bash Rivera, but it's an honest question that I've had for a long time.

We lost this game for a number of reasons, particularly our play at tackle and our inability to catch the damn ball.

We have seen time and time again that Rivera goes with veterans over younger players for whatever his reasons may be, but they seem to not be because of on field results, because if they were, why did Kony take a backseat once CJ came back when he had been playing out of his mind for over a month?

I am seriously worried about the ability of Rivera, who is notably a coach who sticks by his guys, at making the tough decisions that are needed to improve the team.  I see him as a guy who tells himself, "look at the season we just had and with a few more breaks what could have been in the SB, why would I need to make major changes when a few plays different and we would have won the Super Bowl?"

His loyalty and backing of his players is great and helps us in many situations, but it also has the potential to hurt us at the same time.

I'm not someone who says, "look what we have done, I'm going to be happy with it", because it's now about what you've done for me, it's about what you're going to do for me next.  It's the reason I can't stand when people want to not talk about issues because you're undefeated at the moment.  Yes, you could be winning games, but at the same time there could be problems in those games that while they didn't cost you in that game, they may cause a loss in the next one.

This team is set up for a great future, but to get there some changes do need to be made, and I just hope Rivera doesn't rest on his laurels and trust "his guys" but makes sure to get the "right guys" on the field next year.

Okay, bash away at me not being a "real fan" now.........

[Carolina Cajun]

He's not, but gettleman is and gettleman will ship out guys if he thinks it'll help the team (see: Smith, Steve)

[tukafan21]

1 minute ago, Carolina Cajun said:

He's not, but gettleman is and gettleman will ship out guys if he thinks it'll help the team (see: Smith, Steve)

Well that's partially my point, Gettleman has got rid of players and put others on the team, but Rivera has a history of baffling personnel decisions with who plays over another.

I think off field leadership has always played too much into who plays on the field with Rivera.

I have always felt he is an outstanding Monday to Saturday coach, one of the best in the league.  But his Sunday decisions often leave me scratching my head.

Now he has grown leaps and bounds in that area over his career, but depth charts seem to be something he still struggles with to me (and many other fans).

Another issue I have is clock management, he needs to get better there, why were we not pushing it more at the end of the half?

[CPcavedweller]

The first time I saw Rivera with any "killer instinct" so to speak, was the second half against the Cardinals. Not once have we had a game we he didn't let up. Those of you who remember the 2011 season know that we led almost every game at halftime and some by several scores. Those weren't player deficiencies but lack of recognition on behalf of the coaches. We saw the same thing this season in a lot of our wins. The Cardinal's game needs to become a blueprint for how this team operates in similar conditions. 

The Super Bowl reminded me of the first few times we played the Seahawks. Their match-up's were better and their coaching was better. Shula and Ron finally found the confidence they needed to call a game the right way to win and unfortunately for them, it seems that familiarity with an opponent is what they need to develop a game plan.

They aren't able to think outside of the box to make tweaks to things (as stated by the Broncos players) and they aren't able to anticipate the game plan of the other team without having faced them before. YOU HAD TWO WEEKS to prepare for this opponent and you drop the ball on the max protect we had been using all season long and decide that the best way to counter act a speed rushing team is by running plays that take four seconds to develop.

This was a sign of some of the same issues Ron has had from the beginning and the only way we will get over that hump is if they are able to anticipate better what match-ups to exploit and the ones you need to prepare to change your style for.  

[ThPantherFan]

You said you wasn't bashing the coach.  Well, you did.  Not that you didn't bring up an issue or two but he's done pretty good in my book.

[panthers55]

Didn't he start 7 rookies last year in a playoff game??

Didn't he start Newton as a rookie along with Keuchly and a slew of other guys. That criticism is simply one more wrong perception by casual fans who have no clue what they are talking about.

[tukafan21]

2 minutes ago, CCS said:

He's a 2x coach of the year, got your team to the super bowl, and helped prepare a defense that was amazing. Stop bitching.

And this right here is my biggest gripe about the "true fans" syndrome.  People think to be a "true fan" you need to support every single thing about your team and what they do and be happy that you won a game.

Those are three great things, do doubt about it.

But how are his past coach of the year trophies, this year's team making the SB, and having a great defense going to help the team next year?

They're not, at all.

We need to have a great coach, a great defense, and a great team next year to do even better, what are you going to do for me next, not what did you do for me in the past.

I'm not saying he should be fired, I'm not even considering that, and I'm not saying he is a bad coach.

I'm saying like ALL coaches, he has his flaws, nobody can deny that.  The problem is one of his biggest flaws in my honest opinion is also something that is one of his biggest strengths, his loyalty.

My question is does he have ability to make that tough decision that goes against his biggest strength, as it has been an issue in the past.

Every team needs to improve at every level, from practice squad players to ownership, even teams like the Patriots who have been a dominant force for almost 2 decades needs to improve.

This just happens to be an area our team needs to improve upon in my opinion and I was asking what others thought about it.

[Swaggasaurus]

He sent Beason packing. Not a harder personnel descision to make. Anyone who followed the team at the end of the Fox era knows he was the leader. Sent his ass up the road. So nah he's cool.

[Carolina Cajun]

13 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

Well that's partially my point, Gettleman has got rid of players and put others on the team, but Rivera has a history of baffling personnel decisions with who plays over another.

I think off field leadership has always played too much into who plays on the field with Rivera.

I have always felt he is an outstanding Monday to Saturday coach, one of the best in the league.  But his Sunday decisions often leave me scratching my head.

Now he has grown leaps and bounds in that area over his career, but depth charts seem to be something he still struggles with to me (and many other fans).

Another issue I have is clock management, he needs to get better there, why were we not pushing it more at the end of the half?

Rivera and gettleman have a sort of good cop/bad cop situation going IMO.  Rivera is a players coach, someone everyone loves, he is loyal to a fault and while it hurts him, his players will die for him.  On the flip side, he knows it's a business and let's gettleman force his hand when he needs to (Steve smith, Byron bell, and Charles Godfrey come to mind).  As long as gettleman will force the changes needed and Rivera will take care of the day to day aspects, we'll be fine.

[tukafan21]

1 minute ago, Swaggasaurus said:

He sent Beason packing. Not a harder personnel descision to make. Anyone who followed the team at the end of the Fox era knows he was the leader. Sent his ass up the road. So nah he's cool.

I don't think that's a tough decision when Kuechly was the guy replacing him.

I think playing CJ and/or Allen over Ealy was a big mistake, Ealy had been balling out of control while CJ was injured and then seemed to disappear back into the fog once CJ came back.

There are things Cam needs to improve upon as well, and dude was just named MVP.

Everyone looks at someone criticizing their team as not being a true fan or just being a sourpuss, but that's just life, you constantly need to improve.

For example, I'm a University of Arizona alum and die hard basketball fan. 

A few years back when we were undefeated 20 games into the season, we had our issues, but anytime someone brought them up, the majority responded with, "we're undefeated, shut up and enjoy it"

Well yes, it was nice to be undefeated and we were enjoying it.  But being undefeated through 20 games isn't going to help you win game #21, if you have an issue, you have an issue, regardless of your ability to rise above it previously.

I want to get better each and every play, every game, every season.

Even if we won the game on Sunday, I'd still worry about some gameday decisions moving forward because it's been an issue in the past, one that we have mostly been able to overcome.

But to rest on your laurels and not want to improve, regardless of past accomplishments, is a loser mentality IMHO.

[t96]

I don't think any of us are qualified to say whether or not a player should be playing over another player. We don't see what goes on in practice and we don't even know how to properly evaluate their play on the field. I trust Ron.

[tukafan21]

3 minutes ago, Carolina Cajun said:

Rivera and gettleman have a sort of good cop/bad cop situation going IMO.  Rivera is a players coach, someone everyone loves, he is loyal to a fault and while it hurts him, his players will die for him.  On the flip side, he knows it's a business and let's gettleman force his hand when he needs to (Steve smith, Byron bell, and Charles Godfrey come to mind).  As long as gettleman will force the changes needed and Rivera will take care of the day to day aspects, we'll be fine.

You just said it there yourself, it has hurt him in the past.

Which is the catch 22 in this whole thing, what motivates his players to play for him the most, is also something that has bitten him before.

Which is why I'm not saying I want him fired, nothing of that sort, because without that part of his coaching personality, we wouldn't be the team we are today.

Perfect example, yes, Gettleman has gotten rid of players in the past, but at the same time, everyone here seems to have said they want Remmers to be kept around, but as a backup.

Who's to say if Gettlemen keeps him on the squad with that in mind, that Rivera won't start him because, "look at how amazing our offensive line was in 2015 for the majority of the year, that's my guy, why would I need to make a change based on a few bad bounces in one game last year?"

 

[tukafan21]

2 minutes ago, CCS said:

 

Whoever didn't teach you about paragraphs should be fired. 

I know how paragraphs work, but I also know that paragraphs on forums make for a bitch to read,particularly if you're on your phone, so I like to break things up to make it easier on the eye.

I may not have a ton of posts on this particular forum, usually a reader not poster here, but I have over 10,000 posts on a couple other forums, it's just my forum posting style for ease of readability.

[Seltzer]

27 minutes ago, CCS said:

He's a 2x coach of the year, got your team to the super bowl, and helped prepare a defense that was amazing. Stop bitching.

Control C, Control V, a million times over.  This isn't early 2013.  Ron is easily a top 5 coach at this point.  Perspective people