A question (regarding PSL's)

[bigdog10]

Seeing Atlanta's new stadium got me thinking about BOA and i'm hoping maybe some PSL holders here can give some insights or thoughts on this question.

In the event that the Panthers were to decide to build a new stadium, what would happen to the numerous PSL's that are currently owned by individuals or businesses?  I'd imagine that those PSL's would not transfer over to a new stadium, but would they become completely obsolete?  Has there ever been a precedent set for this type of thing?  I know the Panthers were one of the first teams to enact the PSL system, but I believe you would have an extremely hard time getting those same fans who currently own the PSL's in Bank of America stadium to just discard those and fork over the Panthers asking price at the new stadium.

I know this is all hypothetical considering there are no current plans for a new stadium, but I can't imagine it will be too far in the future that the team will be looking to join the ranks of the other teams and build a shiny new stadium (especially when Jerry Richardson passes on).

[w280sax]

I'm certain that the PSL agreement states that they are valid for the life of the stadium so I assume that means you would be asked to buy new PSL's when a new stadium is inevitably built.

However, I'm not aware of precedent where another team used PSL money and has since replaced their stadium.  I'm certain there will be a lot of angry people and possibly lawsuits debating how the Permanent part of PSL is no longer valid.

[bigdog10]

1 minute ago, w280sax said:

I'm certain that the PSL agreement states that they are valid for the life of the stadium so I assume that means you would be asked to buy new PSL's when a new stadium is inevitably built.

However, I'm not aware of precedent where another team used PSL money and has since replaced their stadium.  I'm certain there will be a lot of angry people and possibly lawsuits debating how the Permanent part of PSL is no longer valid.

Thanks man.  I'm not sure I've seen an original agreement, so It'd be interesting to get my hands on one of those.  

Here is a quote I took off of the Panther's website.  I'm not a lawyer, but I would think the wording of that phrase opens them up to some legal action in the event that they were to build a new stadium.  Who knows though.

Be there for all of the action and excitement of Carolina Panthers football at Bank of America Stadium with a Permanent Seat License (PSL) and Season Tickets. A PSL, which gives you exclusive rights to buy season tickets every year, guarantees your place in Bank of America Stadium for a lifetime of NFL Football. PSLs help pay for renovation projects, operation and maintenance for Bank of America Stadium, one of only three privately financed stadiums in the NFL. Take ownership in America's most popular sport - NFL football - with a Carolina Panthers PSL

[goodoleboy]

My guess is should a new stadium be built current psl owners would be given first shot at seats in the new stadium.

I personally wouldn't buy them again and I have had mine since day 1. Too many of my friends have gotten better seats than mine on the street over the years without investing thousands for the right to pay retail price.


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[w280sax]

This article is a few years old but it basically says the same thing we've said here.

 

http://www.journalnow.com/news/state_region/psl-is-forever-unless-carolina-panthers-move/article_0bdbe06e-6a12-11e2-8be0-001a4bcf6878.html

[SCP]

Me and my fellow PSL owners are fuged. I knew the risk going in though so I'm fine with it. I've derived plenty of joy and pain out of them over the years to justify the purchase.



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[dave-o]

The seat license also makes sure you have to pay full price for 2 pre-season games or you will lose said license...  What a crock !

[raleigh-panther]

16 hours ago, goodoleboy said:

My guess is should a new stadium be built current psl owners would be given first shot at seats in the new stadium.

I personally wouldn't buy them again and I have had mine since day 1. Too many of my friends have gotten better seats than mine on the street over the years without investing thousands for the right to pay retail price.


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If the Panthers ever become a consistent winning franchise, this won't be the case 

I al get a lot one parking space. Given game day traffic, that helps a lot. Knowing I have the Tix is also an asset I can sell and that does off set the cost  not my preference but it does help 

losing record. Whole different story

[grateflday]

I would think current PSL owners would be given the first option in any new stadium.  That being said, I would be pissed because my current seats are awesome and would most likely very expensive, and unaffordable to me, if this scenario were to occur.  

That be said, I think any talk of a new stadium is far fetched.  I get it the stadium is "old" in terms of when it was built vs newer stadiums, etc; BUT unlike older stadiums, Panther stadium has a lot of club seats and suites which is usually the reasons why teams want to build a new one.... so thankfully the designers had the foresight to make our current stadium more current than its age.  Also, it is still a very nice stadium, in a great location, etc, etc.  So I am not to worried about a new stadium for a very long time.  

 

[CatMan72]

With all the recent improvements I think we're at least 10-15 years away from starting the new staium discussion.

[Anybodyhome]

Both the new Dallas and New York Giant stadiums were built when their existing stadiums were a majority of the old school, season ticket holders contributing to sell outs week after week. Although not PSLs, the season ticket model did have a first right of refusal clause that allowed you to decline to purchase a season's worth of tickets and you'd lose your place in line. And both Dallas and NY had waiting lists for season tickets. 

When the new stadiums were built in both cities, especially in Dallas, the season tickets holders got screwed with no thought of any lubricant. There were literally generations worth of season ticket holders who were basically priced out of the market when their seats were offered to them in the new stadium at a price 15-20 times higher than what they were paying previously.

If the Panthers organization were to entertain a new stadium, the current PSL owners may get first right of refusal, but I guarantee the prices would be substantially higher. There's no way they'd simply roll over the current PSLs simply because selling new PSLs generates cash flow to covering any of the construction costs of the new stadium.

The cost of the original Ericsson Stadium was $248M. Today's replacement stadiums are north of $1B. The sale of new PSLs would generate immediate cash. There is no cash income if you paid for your PSL 10 years ago.    

[SCP]

I would think current PSL owners would be given the first option in any new stadium.  That being said, I would be pissed because my current seats are awesome and would most likely very expensive, and unaffordable to me, if this scenario were to occur.  

That be said, I think any talk of a new stadium is far fetched.  I get it the stadium is "old" in terms of when it was built vs newer stadiums, etc; BUT unlike older stadiums, Panther stadium has a lot of club seats and suites which is usually the reasons why teams want to build a new one.... so thankfully the designers had the foresight to make our current stadium more current than its age.  Also, it is still a very nice stadium, in a great location, etc, etc.  So I am not to worried about a new stadium for a very long time.  

 

Yea I absolutely love BofA stadium. Love it. Some prefer the giant parking lot surrounding a stadium for tailgating but l love how the nooks and crannies of the city are full of tailgaters. Love everything about the joint and the surrounding area.


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[Thorrez]

https://www.google.se/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=/amp/www.latimes.com/sports/rams/la-sp-rams-psl-lawsuit-20160922-snap-story,amp.html&ved=0ahUKEwiNscWY8tzRAhXHDSwKHYa_CNsQFggkMAE&usg=AFQjCNG5ZY_6RwPyCrzXgfe-CxThKVH-ow&sig2=tsLSb3tZe1-2i0DPMHf_nQ

Looks like the Rams tried to fug their psl holders but are getting beat in the courts. I cannot find anything after this firsts ruling. So it probably comes down to the language in the contract, you guys better start making friends with some awesome lawyers.