Hurney vs DG

[CRA]

1 minute ago, Goondal said:

I am sorry, I still do not buy it.  By just removing Smitty from the franchise there is a good chance Hurney never makes a CCG, let alone a SB (the ‘05 team definitely does not).  That does not mention the three defensive players.

Yes, Hurney made important additions, so did Gettleman.  Giving Hurney credit for his success and for Gettleman’s as well is akin to Bucs fans back in the day with their stupid “Gruden took two teams to the SB” argument.

Steve Smith in 2003 still wasn't Cam Newton or even a Luke in terms of value to the team.  I'll give you 2005 though.  Dave walked into the door with TWO 2005 Steve Smith's.  Clear edge Dave was given over Hurney.   Dave obviously made some key additions, I just think Hurney's early ones again where simply better and more impactful. 

Of course I am merely talking early Hurney years.  After that he got bad.  But Hurney's first couple years IMO was still the best window by a GM we have had.  Evaluating his overall tenure start showing his stock dropping. 

[Ace_Aladdin]

28 minutes ago, ThPantherFan said:

So, how do you place a bet on the huddle and how do you take receipt of payment? 

Quote or @ who you want to bet & place the terms.  

Loser pays via Venmo.

 

[frash.exe]

it’s so funny seeing ppl make the same points about gettleman being terrible that we’ve already seen 18,000 times on here presented like it’s fresh insight

WULL 

WULL

WULL

HE RELEASED SMITTY

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

AND HE LET GROSS WALK

 

 

AND HE SIGNED MATT KALIL

[Eazy-E]

Do people honestly think Dave has the same success with Jake Delhomme as his QB?

It must be the All the people who beg for Anderson to start year after year.

Get real people. Dave doesn’t accomplish a damn thing without Cam Newton. Hell, we would probably have a Lombardi if he didn’t neglect protecting Cam for so long. The guy really let Cam get under Center with Byron Bell and Nate Chandler as his starting tackles. I still wonder if Dave was part of the reason Gross retired.

[mc52beast]

Are you judging their success solely on picking in the draft or can we also judge based on how well they handle the salary cap and FA?

[Ace_Aladdin]

19 minutes ago, mc52beast said:

Are you judging their success solely on picking in the draft or can we also judge based on how well they handle the salary cap and FA?

Let’s take it step by step , 

1st step  is the production level of the draft class  which we can judge after a full season.

2nd step will be CAP & FA which should be over judged over 3 years as rookie contracts are up.

IdK if some of these fair weather fan will still he here on the board lol. 

 

[kungfoodude]

1 hour ago, NanuqoftheNorth said:

You might want to research George Seifert's last draft in 2001.

http://www.panthers.com/team/history/college-draft-history.html

Where did the obsession with revisionist history over GM's come from, anyway? Hurney deserves credit for some of the building(through the draft and free agency) to help us to a Super Bowl and two divisional titles. He also deserves scorn for some of his massive contracts he handed out and boneheaded draft moves. Gettleman deserves credit for unwinding us from the cap hell we were in and being able to find "bargain bin" signings that helped fill holes in our roster during those cap strapped years. He also deserves scorn for alienating some of our franchise veterans and HOF players, leaving obvious roster holes for almost his entire tenure, and some pretty spotty drafting. 

None of these guys are perfect, they all did some good things and enough bad things to end up getting canned in the end. We have a guy now that has had some success with our franchise before. Let's hope he channels that kind of success for what is likely to be his only offseason as our GM and then move on to the next guy. I don't give two shits about Dave Gettleman, because he isn't our GM. I don't particularly wish ill upon him but I certainly hope he isn't successful, because he doesn't work for the Carolina Panthers. I will felt the same way about Hurney when he left and I will feel the same way when he is gone again. Don't. Give. A. fug. I cannot understand how front office people can retain fanboys after they are gone. Same with players. Julius Peppers was one of my favorite all-time Panthers but I damn sure didn't root for him when he left. Same with Steve Smith, same with Josh Norman, etc, etc. Not. A. Panther.

[LinvilleGorge]

2 hours ago, jbland said:

It depends, I would say it will be answered by who wins a Super Bowl first. If we don’t win this year and they win in the next 5. The discussion is over. If we win this year, I am giving credit to GMan. If we win next year or the following 4 years, Hurney gets the credit. 

I honestly don't think Hurney will he here long-term. New ownership will replace him.

[Mr. Scot]

2 hours ago, Eazy-E said:

Do people honestly think Dave has the same success with Jake Delhomme as his QB?

It must be the All the people who beg for Anderson to start year after year.

Get real people. Dave doesn’t accomplish a damn thing without Cam Newton. Hell, we would probably have a Lombardi if he didn’t neglect protecting Cam for so long. The guy really let Cam get under Center with Byron Bell and Nate Chandler as his starting tackles. I still wonder if Dave was part of the reason Gross retired.

Does Gettleman give Delhomme a huge contract after that 2008 meltdown?

And Hurney didn't accomplish a damn thing with Cam Newton.

[Mr. Scot]

2 hours ago, NanuqoftheNorth said:

You might want to research George Seifert's last draft in 2001.

http://www.panthers.com/team/history/college-draft-history.html

Guys like Mike Minter, Mike Rucker, Muhsin Muhammad and others were already aboard too.

[kungfoodude]

52 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Guys like Mike Minter, Mike Rucker, Muhsin Muhammad and others were already aboard too.

Yes but he also brought in some of the best players the franchise has ever seen(Julius Peppers, Jordan Gross, Thomas Davis, DeAngelo Williams, Ryan Kalil, Jonathan Stewart, Cam Newton, Luke Keuchly, Josh Norman). It is a mixed bag for all these guys. At least we haven't had some of the blithering idiots that some of these other franchises have had(See: Browns, Cleveland).

[Mr. Scot]

32 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Yes but he also brought in some of the best players the franchise has ever seen(Julius Peppers, Jordan Gross, Thomas Davis, DeAngelo Williams, Ryan Kalil, Jonathan Stewart, Cam Newton, Luke Keuchly, Josh Norman). It is a mixed bag for all these guys. At least we haven't had some of the blithering idiots that some of these other franchises have had(See: Browns, Cleveland).

And I'll ask again: Why were we in position to draft guys like Newton, Kuechly, Gross, etc?

One thing I know about any Hurney debate: Apologists always want to talk about players, but generally do their best to steer clear of talking about win-loss records.

I'll also ask what Fox did previously. Who else of any worth came out of those Newton-Kuechly drafts?

[Goondal]

3 hours ago, CRA said:

Steve Smith in 2003 still wasn't Cam Newton or even a Luke in terms of value to the team.  I'll give you 2005 though.  Dave walked into the door with TWO 2005 Steve Smith's.  Clear edge Dave was given over Hurney.   Dave obviously made some key additions, I just think Hurney's early ones again where simply better and more impactful. 

Of course I am merely talking early Hurney years.  After that he got bad.  But Hurney's first couple years IMO was still the best window by a GM we have had.  Evaluating his overall tenure start showing his stock dropping. 

‘03 Smitty certainly was not ‘05 Smitty but he and others that were already here were incredibly important parts of our SB run.  

My point is that both GMs inherited valuable pieces that were a major part of a SB run.  Both GMs also made valuable additions that were a major part of a SB run.  Neither team makes the SB w/o both the inherited pieces and neither does it with the new ones.For someone to try and discredit one GM with that information and ignore it in the case of another is dishonest.

[NanuqoftheNorth]

4 hours ago, carpanfan96 said:

I'll just put this here. 

http://m.panthers.com/news/article-2/2001-draft-yields-bumper-crop/6b30146c-19a3-424d-9e78-0424c302100c

 

virtually all of the planning and execution for the 2001 draft was done by director of football operations Marty Hurney and director of player personnel Jack Bushofsky

 

I'll just post a few lines from the article linked in your response:

"It was a good draft. And actually Jack Bushofsky was in charge of that draft. I love Jack, and I can talk about it - but that really was Jack's draft,"

-Marty Hurney

There is nothing during following ten years of overseeing Carolina's draft selections that would indicate Marty was lying when he gave Jack Bushofsky full credit for the players selected in 2001.  2001 is regarded by many as the Panthers high water mark when it comes to number of impact players selected in a single draft.

Also from your posted article:

"... head coach George Seifert still had the final say in all personnel matters..."

So, Marty is quoted saying Bushofsky should get full credit and George Seifert is recognized as still having the final say in all personnel matters for the 2001 draft. 

Thanks for helping make my point.