Hurney vs DG

[carpanfan96]

2 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

So using this method, Don Gregory gets credit for draft picks. Likewise, Gettleman gets credit for free agent signings in New York since he was the director of pro personnel. Hurney's free agent signings would be credited to Mark Koncz, of course.

Do we really wanna go this route?

If you don't have final say, you can't take credit.

Depends on the situation, like with Beane running Gettlemans drafts. Beane had final say and made moved according to the board and team needs. He scouted, and traded for Bene, Williams, Funchess and was instrumental in those drafts. Hell a few of those drafts you could call them Beane drafts. 

 

As for the Seifert draft in 2001, the article says he had final say on personal moves however the 2001 draft was handled by them and not Seifert. 

[heel31ok]

3 hours ago, Jon Snow said:

Why not?  That's how you've been comparing Dave's picks to Hurneys.  Hurney was constantly picking near the top of every round while Dave had one relatively high draft.   You're comparing 11 drafts to 4.  The results are not even close.

and never will be...how g-man drafts now has nothing to do with us or who drafts for us...

[Ace_Aladdin]

Man I already seen so many Huddlers pop on Giants forum.

tarheel

mr

ligon 

[Salisburysean98]

19 hours ago, sanjay_rajput said:

You wanna wager $100 if you’re  confident ?

Don't be "that guy". Draft classes have to wait 4-5 years to be judged fairly. 

[uncfan888]

13 minutes ago, sanjay_rajput said:

Man I already seen so many Huddlers pop on Giants forum.

tarheel

mr

ligon 

Sure you have. Why are you on giants forums? You're so damn weird 

[LilBean]

Marty Hurney 86-90 record as GM

Dave Gettlemen 51-27 record as GM

The Marty Hurney years were a painful time to be a Panther's fan.  How anyone could support him as our GM is difficult to understand.  He did a great job drafting Cam and Luke, but I think a lot of fans could have made those picks at 1 and 9.

[ForJimmy]

I don’t think either of them are that bad at drafting. Hurney had a history of giving out dumb contracts overvaluing players (hopefully he learned from this), while Gettleman undervalued good players and let them leave. At least Hurney gave his qb a decent LT for most of his tenure in Jordan Gross... 

[ForJimmy]

57 minutes ago, sanjay_rajput said:

Man I already seen so many Huddlers pop on Giants forum.

tarheel

mr

ligon 

How did you see them? Were you there???

[heel31ok]

4 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

How did you see them? Were you there???

[kungfoodude]

On 12/29/2017 at 12:16 PM, Mr. Scot said:

And I'll ask again: Why were we in position to draft guys like Newton, Kuechly, Gross, etc?

One thing I know about any Hurney debate: Apologists always want to talk about players, but generally do their best to steer clear of talking about win-loss records.

I'll also ask what Fox did previously. Who else of any worth came out of those Newton-Kuechly drafts?

It's hard to pin W/L records solely on a front office unless they did a horrific job of evaluating talent. That was clearly not the case with Hurney, as it has been clear since then that he was able to evaluate talent well at times, although certainly not consistently. The same goes for Gettleman or any other GM we have had. If it is Hurney's fault for any of the team's failures, wouldn't Gettleman be equally at fault for our 2016 season? Does that mean Gettleman's "record" is reduced because only 50% of this seasons here were winning records?

I can't call that sound logic. Hurney deserves credit for getting some of the players he did, just like Gettleman, Seifert or any of the rest do. It's relatively rare that you can break down the success or failure of an entire franchise down to one guy, especially in the NFL. To assign one person(GM, coach, player, etc) all the blame or credit is dramatically oversimplifying a nuanced situation, if not flat out descending into hyperbole. 

As for the the majority of the draft picks being misses, even in the Newton or Keuchly draft, that's pretty much par for the course. The success rate of those picks is largely tied to what round they are drafted in, as I am sure you know. That's why it hurts so much when you do whiff on your first 1-3 rounds of draft picks. The 2008 and 2009 drafts being glaring examples of this for Hurney, and 2014 is shaping up to look like that with Gettleman(the obvious exception so far being Trai Turner).

[carpanfan96]

On 12/29/2017 at 8:03 PM, LilBean said:

Marty Hurney 86-90 record as GM

Dave Gettlemen 51-27 record as GM

The Marty Hurney years were a painful time to be a Panther's fan.  How anyone could support him as our GM is difficult to understand.  He did a great job drafting Cam and Luke, but I think a lot of fans could have made those picks at 1 and 9.

First, your counting 2010 which JR used as a proving season because he cared more for the league then the team. Made both Hurney and Fox go cheap, go back and listen to Fox. He came out and said that the personal moves weren't his decision and the team wasn't his. 

 

Second, most of this board didn't want Luke during that draft because of Beason. 

[Mr. Scot]

1 hour ago, kungfoodude said:

It's hard to pin W/L records solely on a front office unless they did a horrific job of evaluating talent. That was clearly not the case with Hurney, as it has been clear since then that he was able to evaluate talent well at times, although certainly not consistently. The same goes for Gettleman or any other GM we have had. If it is Hurney's fault for any of the team's failures, wouldn't Gettleman be equally at fault for our 2016 season? Does that mean Gettleman's "record" is reduced because only 50% of this seasons here were winning records?

I can't call that sound logic. Hurney deserves credit for getting some of the players he did, just like Gettleman, Seifert or any of the rest do. It's relatively rare that you can break down the success or failure of an entire franchise down to one guy, especially in the NFL. To assign one person(GM, coach, player, etc) all the blame or credit is dramatically oversimplifying a nuanced situation, if not flat out descending into hyperbole. 

As for the the majority of the draft picks being misses, even in the Newton or Keuchly draft, that's pretty much par for the course. The success rate of those picks is largely tied to what round they are drafted in, as I am sure you know. That's why it hurts so much when you do whiff on your first 1-3 rounds of draft picks. The 2008 and 2009 drafts being glaring examples of this for Hurney, and 2014 is shaping up to look like that with Gettleman(the obvious exception so far being Trai Turner).

Well yeah, if you wanna say Hurney is good, I'd definitely try to look at something other than win-loss records.

But seriously, you can look at Marty Hurney's draft history and come away with the conclusion that he's a good talent evaluator?

Really?

Look, you can't just say "well, he picked this guy and he's good so he must be a good drafter", especially not when you're picking high in the draft.  You have to evaluate the strength of the entire roster, not just the best few guys on it.  And the best way to evaluate the strength of a full roster?  Wins and losses.

If you have to try and spin the analysis in a certain way in order to make Hurney look good, that oughtta tell you something.

[CPF4LIFE]

On 12/29/2017 at 9:03 PM, LilBean said:

Marty Hurney 86-90 record as GM

Dave Gettlemen 51-27 record as GM

The Marty Hurney years were a painful time to be a Panther's fan.  How anyone could support him as our GM is difficult to understand.  He did a great job drafting Cam and Luke, but I think a lot of fans could have made those picks at 1 and 9.

Bullshit, if anything those picks were controversial on here right after they happened. They weren't slam dunk everybody on board at all.

[Fox007]

3 minutes ago, CPF4LIFE said:

Bullshit, if anything those picks were controversial on here right after they happened. They weren't slam dunk everybody on board at all.

Mostly because there was a preconceived narrative about Cam that had nothing to do with football. People still don't and aren't admitting they were wrong about Cam. Other than that everyone knew we had to have a QB and there were no legit counters to drafting Cam on this board(just nonsense and a racist who got banned).

The Luke pick is different as we already had and still do have one of the best LB units in football so yea adding yet another first round MLB pick was controversial and would have stayed that way if Beasons injury didn't settle the issue. Didn't see anyone doubting Lukes abilities though just our own drafting of LBs/RBs. Then it went to DT/CB with GMan.....we can't expect to field a full roster when we keep only using first round picks on the same 2 positions every other year. Even with Hurney's stacking of RBs and Lbs Gman also nabbed a 1st round RB and LB.....poo is so fuged up when taken together.