"Run To Establish The Pass" And Other Rushing Advantage Stuff Is Actually A #Myth

[weyco2000]

17 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

The final four teams in the playoffs this year all had top 10 regular season rushing offenses.

Jags - #1

Eagles - #3

Vikings - #7

Patriots - #10

Only one of those teams had a top 10 passing offense.

Patriots - #2

Vikings - #11

Eagles - #13

Jaguars - #17

The league is evolving more and more toward passing, but running the football is still really important.

 

Hell just come out 5 wideouts with some guys pulled off the street. Tell Cam not to run because Sacca has data that will prove his effort meaningless, sounds like Chip Kelly bullsh1t.

[Palmetto]

7 hours ago, mikeholiday said:

Because he has the causality completely flipped. Teams that are winning run the football to drain the clock. Not win because they ran the ball a lot.

Eagles Jags and Vikings ran the football not to just run the clock like ALL team try to do with the lead

Pats would be an exception because you know Tom Brady but most teams dont have Tom Brady

[LinvilleGorge]

8 hours ago, mikeholiday said:

Because he has the causality completely flipped. Teams that are winning run the football to drain the clock. Not win because they ran the ball a lot.

In 2017, the Eagles rushed for 1066 yards in the 1st half and 1057 in the 2nd half.

1056/1215 for the Jags.

883/1075 for the Vikings.

1014/880 for the Pats.

That's a combined 4019 yards in the 1st half and 4227 in the 2nd half.

Yes, teams tend to run the ball more often when leading the game, particularly late in the game, but running out the clock in late game situations with a lead seems to have had minimal impact on the overall rushing stats of the final four teams. Half of them actually ran for more yards in the 1st half than the 2nd half.

[OneBadCat]

I mean I think having a great running game is a solid philosophy and platform to go with. But sticking with it no matter what even when it’s not working is detrimental. A team needs to be able to switch to the pass and adjust when it needs to.

I think our offense has the potential to do both quite well. We just really need to get a solid power RB to compliment CMC.

Between a healthy Olsen, CMC, and Cam Newton we should have the best 3rd down coversion percentage in the league. And those 3 players provide a ton of versatility when one aspect of the offense isn’t working. 

But I do think we need to find a solution to imposing our will when we need to run the ball. I don’t think Stew is completely done. But it seems like he is going to need consistently great blocking from now on to make consistent yards.

[Manther]

You don't run to establish the pass.  You pass, which then happens to allow the run.   If you only pass, the rushers will go full tilt all the time trying to get the qb...so you need to sprinkle in some running to keep them honest.

[Saca312]

19 hours ago, thomas96 said:

It's funny how often you are proven wrong with your "analysis" here and then you continue to make these adamant blanket claims... Take a hint dude and realize that, just like all of us here, you don't know poo. 

Ironically, this isn’t my analysis.

[Palmetto]

1 hour ago, Marcogreenbush said:

I think it's flipped in modern days . The pass opens up the run . Just look at the pass heavy offenses . Saints , falcons , pats , packers. There passing attack opens up their run game .

I dont think tou can call the Saints and Falcons pass happy with Freeman/Colman Ingram /Kamara 

Brees had 23 tds thats a big time down year for him

Ryan had 20 tds 

The Pats and Packers have Brady and Rodgers other teams dont

[top dawg]

You must have talent to win. 

Balance is the key most of the time. 

Situational play calling and out-thinking your opponent is important.

You must realize your team's strengths and the other team's weaknesses and tendencies to have the greatest success.

Most of the time,  if you can't do one or the other well,  when you run into the more complete team that plays to their strengths and your weaknesses, you're going to lose. 

Stats can't really measure the things I'm talking about,  nor can they prove that running is less important than passing or vice versa.  To try and do so is an exercise in utter uselessness in my opinion. If you can't do either well enough,  when you run into the team that can,  you usually lose.

Keep It Simple, Stupid! If you have to do all kinds of mental gymnastics in order to try and prove some point just because it supports some philosophy or theory that you want or don't want to believe,  then it makes you look less believable.

[Saca312]

sigh.

i agree with everyone saying balance is important. you need to be able to do both to be successful. no one's denying that.

i'm just here to show an opinion that maybe you don't actually have to run to set up the pass. you can actually start off play-action with passes or even set up the run game by passing first and it's just as successful.

teams that try to 'push down their will' by 'establishing the run' generally will not be as successful as teams who learn how to throw a team off guard by mixing up their passes and runs in an unpredictable fashion without forcing one or the either.

 

[run-run-pass-punt]

I greatly prefer the "smash-mouth" NFL of old, but in today's NFL where defense has been largely regulated out of the game, why wouldn't you throw it the vast majority of the time?

[Palmetto]

50 minutes ago, Saca312 said:

sigh.

i agree with everyone saying balance is important. you need to be able to do both to be successful. no one's denying that.

i'm just here to show an opinion that maybe you don't actually have to run to set up the pass. you can actually start off play-action with passes or even set up the run game by passing first and it's just as successful.

teams that try to 'push down their will' by 'establishing the run' generally will not be as successful as teams who learn how to throw a team off guard by mixing up their passes and runs in an unpredictable fashion without forcing one or the either.

 

True.  but  the Panthers do need another Rb with a  different style to go along with CMC 

Cam Newton shouldnt be leading the team in rushing

[Doc Holiday]

On 2/16/2018 at 9:57 AM, frash.exe said:

“you need to run to establish the offense” is the biggest bullshit story in modern football

And @Saca312

It’s not, if you don’t understand why you need to run to establish the pass “on some teams” you don’t know what you’re talking about. And I mean not a fuging clue.

you don’t need to run to establish the pass if:

1. You have a great QB

2. You have good WR’s

if these two things apply to your team, then yeah you may not need to run the ball at all. But unless you have a Drew Brees, Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers back there you do!

running to set up the pass is extremely simple, you are trying to bait the Defense into bringing an extra defender into the box, to free up your WR’s.

This accomplishes 2 things.

1 makes things easier on the QB, 2 takes a defender off of whoever your best receiving threat is.

this is why you run the ball to open up the passing game. It sets up the passing game because you literally are pulling a defender out of the back field.(if you don’t understand this you’re dumb as bricks)

now this doesn’t work really well if you either have 1. Garbage QB who can’t hit the side of a barn or 2. Garbage Recievers who can’t get separation or can catch a ball.

If y’all u can’t open up your passing game by running the ball then your team is just terrible to begin with. 

[Saca312]

It’s 2018 and people still believe in most cases you have to run to set up the pass and need great WRs and QBs to do otherwise. @frash.exe

I don’t know what to say to this board anymore.

[Doc Holiday]

32 minutes ago, Saca312 said:

It’s 2018 and people still believe in most cases you have to run to set up the pass and need great WRs and QBs to do otherwise. @frash.exe

I don’t know what to say to this board anymore.

Brah, it’s not opinion it’s fact, ask the jaguars and the cowboys, they basically ran to the playoffs based on running to set up the pass the last two years and the saints used it to beat us 3 times this year.

Also you can’t just keep on passing the ball if your team is garbage at it, you need to run too, otherwise you’re asking for your teams ass to get stomped.

this isn’t some new theory, this isn’t being an old school football fan, this is just fact and actually knowing what you’re talking about.(I’m talking about running the football to pull a defender into the box if you’re missing what I’m saying)

how about you stop trying to come up with some fresh new perspective and watch some god damn football, you might actually learn a thing or two!