Hurney's plan for the WR corps

[LinvilleGorge]

3 minutes ago, top dawg said:

OK,  you don't hate him,  you just want to get rid of him at all costs. The narrative about him being a fringe pro and a questionable starter was upset by a decidedly good 2017, so now it's "He's not worth 8-10 mil per year."

Seriously,  LG,  if Funchess shows even more improvement the coming season and solidifies his playmaker status,  why in the world would we not want to pay him?  I mean,  we're the team that has invested in him,  and he's responded by showing marked progression, even to the point where people consider him a possible core or foundational player,  but you still want to get rid of him by any means necessary. Anybody but Funchess is worth paying and investing in,  right? Sorry, dude,  I wholeheartedly disagree.  I say he's earned another year to see if he's legit.  And,  if he's legit,  I don't see any reason why we shouldn't keep him around.  8-10 mil per year is certainly not a reason,  and it may be the very reason to keep him.  If you can keep him cheaper than that , like via an extension before the season, then you might wanna do it. 

You're reading what you want to read. Get rid of him at all costs? Anybody but Funchess? Is that really what I'm saying.

C'mon man...

[Panthers8969]

Let’s just pay Odell his 20m per year and call it a day

[joemac]

If Fun Fun keeps progressing, and cracks 1000 yards this season...not a huge stretch at all, then yes, we absolutely pay the man what he has earned. Although I think he is more in the mold of a kick ass #2, then our #1....but I guess a lot of that remains to be seen. 

Watkins/Robinson/Bryant and Funchess is a great 1/2 combo. 

Funchess and some random rookie or scrub from the bottom of someone's roster....not so much.

[Johnny Rockets]

12 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

Funchess is progressing and, considering he was once a TE, you have to give him this season to define himself. 

Having said that, we have ZERO proven or established WRs.  Funchess?  Not yet.  800 yards (50 per game) is not established.

I think people under play (or don't realize) just how hurt Funchess was much of last year. His shoulder was was a mess and he could barely move it some days. Also dealt with ankle issues. Guy still went out each week and powered through. He was very limited towards the end of the year. Hard to tell how things would have turned out had he been somewhat healthy. 

[steven8989]

I will believe when I see it and I'm thinking we won't see it lol.

[davos]

If Allen Robinson or Sammy Watkins actually happens happens, I would hope we cap off a Watkins we a back of roster plug with someone like Dontrelle Inman/Ryan Grant.  You ensure a good floor if Samuel, Byrd and Co. have complications.  

 

[top dawg]

Just now, LinvilleGorge said:

You're reading what you want to read. Get rid of him at all costs? Anybody but Funchess? Is that really what I'm saying.

C'mon man...

Well, I must admit that you did dial it back some with later posts,  but you've posted at least three times since last night that Funchess isn't worth 8-10 mil per year.  What I am telling you is that as opposed to looking toward his exit,  I hope the kid balls out and we keep him. We should be willing to pay market rates, even if it is $10-12 mil per year if he plays to that level.  

People keep bringing up A-Rob and Watkins as somehow the answer to our prayers,  but the fact is that both of them have significant injury histories and, even when healthy, both have essentially taken steps back from where you thought that they would be now.  Funchess has shown gradual progression, and all  that while playing within an offense that frankly isn't necessarily geared toward producing consistent 1000 yard receivers.  If a receiver can get to 1000 yards in this offense,  it's great (but that's about the top end). So,  800-900 yards is plenty acceptable and indicative that the receiver is pretty good and worthy of WR2 money by NFL standards.  If Robinson or Watkins comes here,  don't be surprised if Funchess still puts up 800-1000 yards with 5-10 TDs.  If that happens,  then it will more than justify him being paid as a legit WR2,  regardless if it's 12 mil per year or not.  We need to invest in our corps,  and we need to invest in keeping playmakers around Newton. 

[LinvilleGorge]

3 minutes ago, top dawg said:

Well, I must admit that you did dial it back some with later posts,  but you've posted at least three times since last night that Funchess isn't worth 8-10 mil per year.  What I am telling you is that as opposed to looking toward his exit,  I hope the kid balls out and we keep him. We should be willing to pay market rates, even if it is $10-12 mil per year if he plays to that level.  

People keep bringing up A-Rob and Watkins as somehow the answer to our prayers,  but the fact is that both of them have significant injury histories and, even when healthy, both have essentially taken steps back from where you thought that they would be now.  Funchess has shown gradual progression, and all  that while playing within an offense that frankly isn't necessarily geared toward producing consistent 1000 yard receivers.  If a receiver can get to 1000 yards in this offense,  it's great (but that's about the top end). So,  800-900 yards is plenty acceptable and indicative that the receiver is pretty good and worthy of WR2 money by NFL standards.  If Robinson or Watkins comes here,  don't be surprised if Funchess still puts up 800-1000 yards with 5-10 TDs.  If that happens,  then it will more than justify him being paid as a legit WR2,  regardless if it's 12 mil per year or not.  We need to invest in our corps,  and we need to invest in keeping playmakers around Newton. 

I'm saying that if Funchess doesn't take another step forward next year, no I would not pay him $8-10M per year. If he does and we see him continually progressing upward, sure pay him his market value.

The difference between Funchess and Robinson or Watkins is that Robinson and Watkins have both shown they CAN produce at a high level in the NFL. Watkins had over 1000 yards in 15 games in '15. Robinson had 1500 yards in '15. Funchess barely has that in his entire career. Yes, both have had some injury issues. Robinson's ACL actually concerns me less than Watkins' persistent foot/ankle issues.

[top dawg]

3 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I'm saying that if Funchess doesn't take another step forward next year, no I would not pay him $8-10M per year. If he does and we see him continually progressing upward, sure pay him his market value.

The difference between Funchess and Robinson or Watkins is that Robinson and Watkins have both shown they CAN produce at a high level in the NFL. Watkins had over 1000 yards in 15 games in '15. Robinson had 1500 yards in '15. Funchess barely has that in his entire career. Yes, both have had some injury issues. Robinson's ACL actually concerns me less than Watkins' persistent foot/ankle issues.

I can live with that.  The only thing that I would suggest (like I was trying to do in the last post) is that Funchess has proven that he can play at a legit WR2 level.  You may not call it a "high" level, but that's debatable and a matter of definition. 

[TheRed]

51 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

And do we want to pay $8-10M per year for that? Because that's what guys like Funchess are getting right now. I think it's crazy. I'd love for him to take another step forward this coming season and if we think that's going to happen, we should try to sign him to an extension this offseason. But, if Funchess thinks that's going to happen, he should probably refuse to sign and play this season and hit the open market. We might be willing to give him $8M per year in a contract right now but if he takes another step forward this season he can probably get $12M+ on the open market. 

I hear you. I guess we'll just have to cross that bridge when we get there. Contracts in general are just going up and up so it's going to be a difficult decision either way. But perhaps we should have been doing a better job maximizing our talent while it was reasonably affordable the last several years instead of trying to outdo ourselves and prove something by expecting jags to be all pros.

[Reebis21]

Maybe I’m in the extreme minority but I feel Watkins is overrated and not reliable...his last 2 years have been extremely average...I know several Bills fans who don’t miss him at all. Give me the much cheaper option in Wallace.

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, TheRed said:

I hear you. I guess we'll just have to cross that bridge when we get there. Contracts in general are just going up and up so it's going to be a difficult decision either way. But perhaps we should have been doing a better job maximizing our talent while it was reasonably affordable the last several years instead of trying to outdo ourselves and prove something by expecting jags to be all pros.

Agreed. It's been frustrating spending 1st round picks on positions of strengths where those guys get stuck behind better, more experienced players for the majority of their cheap years.

[Jon Snow]

Is this the same "blueprint" he used his first 11 years?  I hope not.

[frash.exe]

funchess really looks like he can be an asset at no.2. 

...but i really think we should make an effort to have a no.1 here and i’m not a fan of drafting one unless it’s in the top ten (and i don’t think i would do that with this year’s WR class). i’ve had enough of seeing us spend years developing WRs since forever. bring in a proven vet that can produce in that spot.