Cam and the read option. He is still a monstar!

[lightsout]

1 hour ago, panthers55 said:

I think you can if the guy going down field to block at the second level is a tight end or receiver who starts to block and then releases. Obviously if you are going to pass out of it you aren't blocking it as a read option run play. You are making it look like a QB keeper so the linebackers bite and throwing a pass. What you are talking about is when you block it like a running play and try and throw out of it. If I wasn't clear, you can't throw out of that formation if you are blocking down field and grabbing defenders and then try and throw the ball.

Ah, so not blocking it the same, but carrying out the fake and having Cam commit to the run before pulling up. Doable, but I don't trust our edge blocking enough. I'd prefer a rollout. We have done that a couple of times (one was to a wide open Olsen for 6 if I remember correctly), not sure why we don't do it more. Cam's rookie season was great in part to the rollouts.

[Navy_football]

4 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Cam is the best dual threat QB in the history of football, straight up. 

Only player anyone could argue is Randall Cunningham, but the numbers will sway heavily in Cam's favor.

[Navy_football]

32 minutes ago, Woodie said:

Yeah, as much as I love Cam, he has a long way to go to equal Steve Young.  No doubt Cam is a better runner, but you can't discount just how good a runner Young was as well.  And Cam's nowhere near Young's league as a passer.  

But Cam is still only halfway into his career, and if he keeps developing as a passer, he can definitely equal, and possibly surpass Young. But right now, it's not really close.  And the discussion can't really start until he wins a SB...which I think will definitely happen, maybe even as soon as this year.  

Yeah, but Steve did have a team of HOFers, including the best football player of all time - at wide receiver to boot. Cam on those 49ers teams with Bill Walsh would have been epic!  

[Mikey818]

19 minutes ago, Navy_football said:

Yeah, but Steve did have a team of HOFers, including the best football player of all time - at wide receiver to boot. Cam on those 49ers teams with Bill Walsh would have been epic!  

Let’s just say that cam is one of the best dual threat qb ever and not say he is better than Young or Tarkenton or Elway or McNabb etc

[Woodie]

11 minutes ago, Navy_football said:

Yeah, but Steve did have a team of HOFers, including the best football player of all time - at wide receiver to boot. Cam on those 49ers teams with Bill Walsh would have been epic!  

Absolutely, but we're only talking about individual achievement, and thus far Young's far out way Cam's.  Now, I do expect Cam to close that gap, the question is by how much.  I think this will be a telling year.  Norv is a legit QB guru who should be able to get the most out of Cam and put him in a position to really improve as a passer. 

Unfortunately, as unfair as it may be, players are judged by how many SB's they have won (especially QB's), it's why more don't include Marino in the greatest QB of all time argument.  So, for Cam to ever reach the levels he should, he needs to win a SB (ideally more than one), otherwise he'll always be regarded a notch below the best ever.  

[LinvilleGorge]

38 minutes ago, Mikey818 said:

Let’s just say that cam is one of the best dual threat qb ever and not say he is better than Young or Tarkenton or Elway or McNabb etc

Not saying he's better all around (well, he's better than McNabb for sure) but as a DUAL THREAT QB, yeah... he's just plain better. I haven't done the research into it to say for sure, but I'd be shocked if any QB in the Super Bowl era has led their team in rushing as many times as Cam had. Honestly, I'd be shocked if anyone else is even close. 

[LinvilleGorge]

1 hour ago, Navy_football said:

Only player anyone could argue is Randall Cunningham, but the numbers will sway heavily in Cam's favor.

I think Young and Vick are worthy mentions but Cam is miles ahead of Vick as a pure passer and miles ahead of Young as a runner while being a lot closer as a passer than I think most would realize. Let me be clear, I definitely think Young was the better pure passer but when you look at the numbers and consider the supporting casts, it's a lot closer than most would think.

I think Vick was the most feared open field runner of any QB ever. In his prime, he was probably the fastest player in the NFL and the guy had moves too. Where Cam had the clear advantage as a runner is in short yardage and red zone situations. Cam is the best short yardage and goalline runner in the NFL. Period. We had a very good one in Stew at RB but there's a reason why Cam still got the Lion's share of those carries. He's just better.

[Pup McBarky]

6 hours ago, Woodie said:

but we're only talking about individual achievement

No such thing in football. There are individual accolades and awards, but it's a team game. Nobody achieves anything without help from teammates. That's why you can argue until the world is done over who is better than who and it all comes back to, "but if X had Y's receivers or line or defense, then he'd have been better." Honestly, no way to know that.

[SetfreexX]

13 hours ago, panthers55 said:

The best part about the read option is where you start to run and linebackers start chasing and you pass the ball to your TE or receiver exactly where the linebackers just vacated and you get a big gain. What I want to see is Cam on rollouts and read options where there are passing options as well. Something we rarely did.

R.P.O.'s ^^^ that is what you'd like to see. 

[Woodie]

5 hours ago, Pup McBarky said:

No such thing in football. There are individual accolades and awards, but it's a team game. Nobody achieves anything without help from teammates. That's why you can argue until the world is done over who is better than who and it all comes back to, "but if X had Y's receivers or line or defense, then he'd have been better." Honestly, no way to know that.

Oh, come on!  You know what I was saying.  We're comparing two players, and whatever you choose as your basis to compare them is the point. 

Yes, it's a team game, but you can also identify individual differences, abilities, and accomplishments.  Otherwise you could make the argument that Jimmy Clausen was just as good as Tom Brady, but he just didn't have the right parts...and that would be beyond silly.

[Pup McBarky]

56 minutes ago, Woodie said:

Oh, come on!  You know what I was saying

Yeah, I do.

[Mr. Scot]

15 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Young was great but he was nowhere near the runner that Cam is. Cam has already surpassed Young's career rushing stats and at the current rate he'll surpassed his career passing stats in three seasons and Cam will still only be 32 at that point. Young played until he was 38. 

We're truly watching an all-time great and a lot of our own fanbase doesn't even realize it. Cam is a guy people are going to be telling their kids and grandkids about. Enjoy it. 

Cam isn't the passer that Young was either.

I still have to give that title to Steve Young right now.

[DaveThePanther2008]

18 hours ago, Mikey818 said:

Steve young was ok

Steve Young was great at making a bad play good.  The 49ers didn't have many plays designed for him to actually run.  

He was a great scrambler and an amazing QB and dual threat to a point.  Cam has plays designed for him and the dual threat label fits him far better than any QB in history.  This is why he will be a HOFer.  

[Mikey818]

9 minutes ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

Steve Young was great at making a bad play good.  The 49ers didn't have many plays designed for him to actually run.  

He was a great scrambler and an amazing QB and dual threat to a point.  Cam has plays designed for him and the dual threat label fits him far better than any QB in history.  This is why he will be a HOFer.  

I think Cam would be sure H o F if he gets a ring