Still lots of open spots on 53

[KB_fan]

It's still pretty early, with 3 preseason games remaining to be played, but to me it feels like this year there are quite a few more open spots on the likely 53 man roster than in years' past.  In other seasons it's seemed like there were 6-8 spots open, but this season it feels like there are as many as 10-12 with real competition.

Perhaps it's because QB2 is still wide open that things feel so different.

Here is my breakdown of what spots still seem very uncertain:

 

OFFENSE:  5 open spots.

QB2; TE3; RB3; OL9 & OL10

QB:  Cam / ?

I still have no idea who is ahead between Gilbert and Heinicke.  It seems to vary from day to day....  And there's still some possibility that we could sign an experienced vet if neither of these guys measure up.  Right now my gut feeling is Heinicke wins this, but so hard to say.....

 

TE:  Greg / Ian Thomas / ?

Ian Thomas seems to have made a great case to make the roster as TE2 if he continues the preseason as he has begun it.  But TE3?  Presumably that would be Manhertz, but a lot will depend on his recovery from the Jones fracture.  With a new offense under Norv and not getting any reps in training camp, it's hard to see Manhertz fitting back in, especially when he's not shown much to begin with. BUT, there's no other guy with experience to fight him for the job, and so if healthy, I'd assume his experience wins, but right now it's still pretty uncertain. Although Vander Laan has had a very good start to preseason, it's not likely he wins the TE3 spot, but not impossible either. And there's always the possibility of adding a roster cut from another team if Manhertz starts the season on the PUP..

Here's a question:  If roster spots are at a premium, do you think we'd consider going with only 2 TEs plus Armah?  (With Vander Laan or other on PS)

 

RB:  CMC / CJ Anderson / ?

I'd presume CAP is still the favorite for RB3, but the competition with Barner and Hood is tighter than I expected and I wouldn't be shocked to see CAP cut.  

 

FB: Alex Armah

 

WR:  Barring injury (heaven forbid) or some player just balling out in some way that makes cutting them impossible, it's hard to see beyond the presumed top 6 WRs:

Funchess / Moore / Wright / Smith / Samuel / Byrd  

Nothing I've seen so far has suggested any shakeup to this group.

 

OL:  Here's where the biggest questions are on offense, especially because the possibility / timeline for getting Daryl Williams or Silatolu back makes the forecast cloudy:

Right now, I'd have to say 8 O line guys on our roster are likely to make it:

Moton / Turner / R Kalil / Van Roten / M Kalil / Larsen / Mahon / Sirles / ?  ?

With injuries and depth questions on the line, I'd say we aim to keep 10, and that leaves 2 question marks

Sirles has experience, but hasn't done much yet though.  (Injured??)  It seems he's being slotted for Swing Tackle.  He's definitely still on the bubble....

Perhaps on day 1 those two question marks go to Williams and Silatolu, with Williams going to short-term IR the next day, opening up another space.   I'd think that barring some clear adequate depth emerging at tackle (Clausell, Bisnowaty or Sirles?) we'd probably look to sign someone cut from another team, at least until D. Williams can come back...  As I've said before, I really don't like the idea of having two injured guys make the initial 53, leaving two other players vulnerable to waivers.  I have little confidence in Amini's ability to stay healthy and am somehow hoping we'll just IR  or give him an injury settlement now.  But... I doubt that's what Marty and Ron will do.  Sigh.

 

DEFENSE:

On defense, there could be 6 or 7 slots on the 53 which are still undecided...

DE: 1 or 2 spots still in flux

LB: 2 spots still up for grabs

CB: 2 or 3 spots still in flux  

 

DE:  Peppers / Addison / Horton  / Hall ? / ?

We're keeping Peppers in bubble wrap at the moment, so it's not immediately clear how many snaps we'll likely play him.  But beyond Pep, Addison, and Horton, the depth is still somewhat unclear.  Right now my guess is that Hall and Haynes should make the cut. 

But there's also Bryan Cox in the mix.  I also wonder whether any of these possible depth guys (Hall, Haynes or Cox) are strong in sealing the edge.  It was interesting that we just picked up another DE (Sterling Bailey) whose strength is in run defense, suggesting the coaches see a possible weakness in our depth in that regard.  Something to watch.  As for Obada, I assume he'll be sent to the PS again with the international player exemption.

 

DT:  KK / Poe / Butler / Love 

Hard to see anything changing here, especially as we've already cut 2 DTs in camp.  I'd guess Norton will make the PS.

 

LB:  TD's suspension mixes things up a bit here.  

Luke / TD* / Shaq / Mayo / Carter   / ?  ? 

Carter seems like a lock at this point, but TD won't be on the roster until week 6 (4 games & bye).  So.... to start the season, that leaves 2 spots open as I can't see us keeping less than 6 backers.  

I'd think the edge goes to Jacobs & Norris because of their experience, but Smith could be in the mix...

 

CB:   The top 3 seems pretty clear at the moment:  Bradberry / Jackson / Munnerlyn.   But beyond that are 3 ? ? ? especially since we've been hearing all about rotating at CB2 to provide better match ups...

In the mix:  Seymour, Doss & Elder or someone not yet on our roster.   We need to hope 1 or 2 of these guys steps up.  Cockrell's injury is pretty devastating to this group.  It might seem the questions here are merely the order of these 3 guys on the depth chart.  But I don't know that Ron and other would be happy relying on what are essentially 3 rookies at CB (Jackson, Doss, Elder). Heaven knows we've done it before, but results were bad.  So.... I'm guessing we'll add another CB via FA signing, trade or picking up someone cut by a team with too much depth at CB.    But right now depth at this group is a big concern.  It has been a big relief actually to see Captain playing so well at both nickel AND outside corner (when he got reps there on Saturday).  We really need him to be a leader among the DBs.  And, in spite of concerns about depth, I'm very hopeful for Jackson.  He's a real bright spot in an otherwise worrying position group..

 

S:  With the injury to Parms, I'd say we've got a pretty clear 4 guys now:  Adams / Searcy / Gaulden / Jones

I don't see any question marks or potential upsets here.

 

Thoughts??-

-----

TL;DR: Here are the spots on the depth chart still up for grabs, IMO:

QB2

TE3

RB3

OL 9 & OL 10

DE 4 & DE 5

LB 6 & 7' (*one of whom will presumably be released when TD comes back)

CB 4 / CB 5 / CB 6

[Mr. Scot]

I could definitely see watching cuts closely for safety, probably OL also.

[KillerKat]

*Edit: Added Andre Smith due to TD suspension*

Yeah there's lots of spots open. I would love to use 2 RB sets and let Armah be the 3rd TE/FB when we need one. That way it'll free up an extra spot.

On the line, outside of the top 8, im not sure who would be the 9th. I assume that we would keep 9 even when Darryl returns...if he does. For WR, it seems like we are determined to use our 1st round pick yet again for returns instead of using someone proven and capable like Byrd. It's like Rivera wants to limit his opportunities to justify cutting him again despite him showing up already.

On DL, I think it's pretty obvious we're keeping 9. LB, I just see 6 until Andre Smith shows something. In the backfield, I can still see 6 CBs since the competition there is too close and many haven't stood out. I would rather Southward to Jones at Safety, but someone would really have to perform above and beyond for Rivera to cut Jones.

I see it like this at the moment, or at least hope it ends up like this with the current players we have now. Not sure who to give Darryl's spot to after his 24 hours are up on the roster before he hits IR. Like I said, I would think it would be a 9th OL but not sure who:

OFFENSE:
WR1: Devin Funchess - #Jarius Wright# - Damiere Byrd 
LT: Matt Kalil 
LG: #Jeremiah Sirles# - (Brendan Mahon)
C: Ryan Kalil - Tyler Larsen
RG: Trai Turner - Greg Van Roten 
RT: Taylor Moton - +Darryl Williams+
TE: Greg Olsen - *Ian Thomas* - #Evan Baylis#
WR2: *D.J. Moore* - #Torrey Smith# - Curtis Samuel
QB: Cam Newton - Garrett Gilbert
FB: Alex Armah
RB: Christian McCaffrey - #C.J. Anderson# - Cameron Artis-Payne - #Elijah Hood#

DEFENSE:
LE: Julius Peppers - Daeshon Hall 
UT: Kawann Short - Vernon Butler 
NT: #Dontari Poe# - Kyle Love
RE: Mario Addison - Wes Horton - *Marquis Haynes*
SLB: Shaq Thompson - Jared Norris
MLB: Luke Kuechly - David Mayo - *Andre Smith*
WLB: Thomas Davis - *Jermaine Carter Jr.*
LCB: James Bradberry - Captain Munnerlyn - #Lorenzo Doss#
RCB: *Donte Jackson* - LaDarius Gunter - Corn Elder
SS: Mike Adams - Colin Jones 
FS: #Da'Norris Searcy# - *Rashaan Gaulden* 

SPECIAL TEAMS: 
K/KO: Graham Gano 
P/H: Michael Palardy
KR: Damiere Byrd - Curtis Samuel - *D.J. Moore* - Christian McCaffrey
PR: Damiere Byrd - Christian McCaffrey - *D.J. Moore* - Corn Elder
LS: J.J. Jansen 

 

* = Draft Pick
# = Free Agent
() = Undrafted Free Agent
+ = IR Designated to Return


 

[KB_fan]

I wanted to add two more comments that could almost be stand  alone topics, but  they are slightly related to the above roster / depth chart projection, so I'll include them here.

1. If current progress continues,, we could very likely have 7 rookies making the 53, with 5 or 6 of them likely to be active on gamedays. (Moore, Jackson, Thomas, Carter & Gaulden all could be active. Maybe Haynes too. Mahon would be rookie #7). Pretty astonishing. Hoping the early promise this rookie class is showing blossoms into reality.

2. Related to #1. It's astonishing to what extent injuries and other external events (TDs suspension) have created opportunities for this year's rookies. We seem to be fast-tracking 5 rookies:

Jackson (Cockrell injury)

Thomas (Manhertz injury)

Carter (TD suspension)

Gaulden (Parms injury)

Mahon (Silatolu injury)

The truly astonishing fact is that all 5 of these guys looks to have the talent and smarts to be able to seize the opportunity. I hope we will look back on this series of events and say the football gods really smiled on the Panthers!

 

[KillerKat]

3 minutes ago, KB_fan said:

I wanted to add two more comments that could almost be stand  alone topics, but  they are slightly related to the above roster / depth chart projection, so I'll include them here.

1. If current progress continues,, we could very likely have 7 rookies making the 53, with 5 or 6 of them likely to be active on gamedays. (Moore, Jackson, Thomas, Carter & Gaulden all could be active. Maybe Haynes too. Mahon would be rookie #7). Pretty astonishing. Hoping the early promise this rookie class is showing blossoms into reality.

2. Related to #1. It's astonishing to what extent injuries and other external events (TDs suspension) have created opportunities for this year's rookies. We seem to be fast-tracking 5 rookies:

Jackson (Cockrell injury)

Thomas (Manhertz injury)

Carter (TD suspension)

Gaulden (Parms injury)

Mahon (Silatolu injury)

The truly astonishing fact is that all 5 of these guys looks to have the talent and smarts to be able to seize the opportunity. I hope we will look back on this series of events and say the football God's really smiled on the Panthers!

 

TD does count against the roster during suspension right?

[KB_fan]

2 minutes ago, KillerKat said:

TD does count against the roster during suspension right?

No. I don't think so based on past experience, e.g Wes Horton suspension. 

[KillerKat]

2 minutes ago, KB_fan said:

No. I don't think so based on past experience, e.g Wes Horton suspension. 

Yeah you're right. Idk why I thought he would.

[panther4life]

 Great thread!

 

 QB Right now, I'd give Henicke a roster spot. Possible both he and Gilbert make it. I'd assume we are comfortable enough with both, to not sign a vet who spent 0 time in our camp.

TE I think Van Laan has the inside track on this one 

OL- Only ones that are healthy and have proven to earn a roster spot are Kalil x 2, Turner,Moton, Larsen and Van Roten imo. I am guessing if Sirles ever gets healthy he will make that list too. Also Clausell or Bisnowoty should have a chance just by default since they play tackle.

RB - I have seen enough of the Barner, cap experience. I'd like Hood to beat them out. If Fozzy was healthy this would be his spot.

WR - I agree with your assesment. Frazier has an outside shot at competing with Byrd.

On defense I agree with your locks, but need to see more play out of those fighting for the outside spots, as I don't believe any have the inside track.

[ladypanther]

This thread is the Huddle at its best. Well done KB.

[The Lone Panther]

How I see it playing out...

QB: C. Newton / T. Heinicke
RB: CMC / C. Anderson / E. Hood
FB: A. Armah
TE: G. Olsen / I. Thomas / J. Laan
LOT: M. Kalil / B. Clausell
LOG: J. Sirles / B. Mahon
OC: R. Kalil / T. Larsen
ROG: T. Turner / G. Van Roten
ROT: T. Moton / Signee after cuts
WR1: D. Funchess / J. Wright / D. Byrd
WR2: D. Moore / T. Smith / C. Samuel

RDE: M. Addison / W. Horton / D. Hall
RDT: K. Short / V. Butler
LDT: D. Poe / K. Love
LDE: J. Peppers / M. Haynes

RLB: S. Thompson / B. Jacobs
MLB: L. Kuechly / D. Mayo / J. Carter
LLB: T. Davis / J. Norris

SS: M. Adams/ R. Gaulden
FS: D. Searcy / D. Southward
RCB: D. Jackson / C. Munnerlyn / L. Doss
LCB: J. Bradberry / C. Elder

Gano
Palardy
JJ Jansen
 

[KB_fan]

1 hour ago, KillerKat said:

LT: Matt Kalil 
LG: #Jeremiah Sirles# - (Brendan Mahon)
C: Ryan Kalil - Tyler Larsen
RG: Trai Turner - Greg Van Roten 
RT: Taylor Moton - +Darryl Williams+

That scenario leaves us pretty much with no healthy tackle depth and not even a swing tackle for jumbo packages, though presumably they'd add someone after sending Daryl Williams to IR, as you mentioned.

As I mentioned in a different thread this week, I MUCH prefer when we have designated depth on the line that doesn't necessitate moving starters to another position in case of injury.  We all saw the horrible domino effect in 2016 caused by Oher's injury.  We had no backup LT, so when Oher was injured we moved Remmers there and started Williams at RT, thus messing up 2 positions on the line, not just one.  And then eventually we had to move Trai Turner to RT when Daryl Williams was injured.... what a nightmare.

Obviously for roster management, you want depth on the Oline that has versatility, e.g. C/G or G/T  but to start a chain reaction of moving players around on the line if someone is injured to me is a bad mistake.  I hope we can find someone adequate to fill in at RT or LT if either Moton or Matt K were to be injured rather than having to move one of our other starters.

Actually, I'm kind of glad for this very reason that Larsen may not be much in the competition for LG since he's playing so much C at preseason.  Keep him as a backup C / G.  It's not really all that likely that Ryan K is going to play 16+ games, TBH.  If Larsen were starting at G then we had to move him to C, it creates that domino effect again.  

Fingers crossed that Van Roten will be good enough to start at LG, with Larsen, Mahon & Sirles as possible backup.

[thennek]

I could see the Panthers picking up vet help (cuts) at OL, CB, and DE.

I’m not so sure about Hall. Haynes could only be a situational pass rusher. While Peppers is one of the best all time, at 38 he should not be counted on to play full time....we need him to come in fresh off the bench and do what he does best. Hall could be IR’d again if he is not ready to compete. 

[TheSpecialJuan]

great job everyone 

[ecu88]

3 hours ago, KB_fan said:

It's still pretty early, with 3 preseason games remaining to be played, but to me it feels like this year there are quite a few more open spots on the likely 53 man roster than in years' past.  In other seasons it's seemed like there were 6-8 spots open, but this season it feels like there are as many as 10-12 with real competition.

Perhaps it's because QB2 is still wide open that things feel so different.

Here is my breakdown of what spots still seem very uncertain:

 

OFFENSE:  5 open spots.

QB2; TE3; RB3; OL9 & OL10

QB:  Cam / ?

I still have no idea who is ahead between Gilbert and Heinicke.  It seems to vary from day to day....  And there's still some possibility that we could sign an experienced vet if neither of these guys measure up.  Right now my gut feeling is Heinicke wins this, but so hard to say.....

 

TE:  Greg / Ian Thomas / ?

Ian Thomas seems to have made a great case to make the roster as TE2 if he continues the preseason as he has begun it.  But TE3?  Presumably that would be Manhertz, but a lot will depend on his recovery from the Jones fracture.  With a new offense under Norv and not getting any reps in training camp, it's hard to see Manhertz fitting back in, especially when he's not shown much to begin with. BUT, there's no other guy with experience to fight him for the job, and so if healthy, I'd assume his experience wins, but right now it's still pretty uncertain. Although Vander Laan has had a very good start to preseason, it's not likely he wins the TE3 spot, but not impossible either. And there's always the possibility of adding a roster cut from another team if Manhertz starts the season on the PUP..

Here's a question:  If roster spots are at a premium, do you think we'd consider going with only 2 TEs plus Armah?  (With Vander Laan or other on PS)

 

RB:  CMC / CJ Anderson / ?

I'd presume CAP is still the favorite for RB3, but the competition with Barner and Hood is tighter than I expected and I wouldn't be shocked to see CAP cut.  

 

FB: Alex Armah

 

WR:  Barring injury (heaven forbid) or some player just balling out in some way that makes cutting them impossible, it's hard to see beyond the presumed top 6 WRs:

Funchess / Moore / Wright / Smith / Samuel / Byrd  

Nothing I've seen so far has suggested any shakeup to this group.

 

OL:  Here's where the biggest questions are on offense, especially because the possibility / timeline for getting Daryl Williams or Silatolu back makes the forecast cloudy:

Right now, I'd have to say 8 O line guys on our roster are likely to make it:

Moton / Turner / R Kalil / Van Roten / M Kalil / Larsen / Mahon / Sirles / ?  ?

With injuries and depth questions on the line, I'd say we aim to keep 10, and that leaves 2 question marks

Sirles has experience, but hasn't done much yet though.  (Injured??)  It seems he's being slotted for Swing Tackle.  He's definitely still on the bubble....

Perhaps on day 1 those two question marks go to Williams and Silatolu, with Williams going to short-term IR the next day, opening up another space.   I'd think that barring some clear adequate depth emerging at tackle (Clausell, Bisnowaty or Sirles?) we'd probably look to sign someone cut from another team, at least until D. Williams can come back...  As I've said before, I really don't like the idea of having two injured guys make the initial 53, leaving two other players vulnerable to waivers.  I have little confidence in Amini's ability to stay healthy and am somehow hoping we'll just IR  or give him an injury settlement now.  But... I doubt that's what Marty and Ron will do.  Sigh.

 

DEFENSE:

On defense, there could be 6 or 7 slots on the 53 which are still undecided...

DE: 1 or 2 spots still in flux

LB: 2 spots still up for grabs

CB: 2 or 3 spots still in flux  

 

DE:  Peppers / Addison / Horton  / Hall ? / ?

We're keeping Peppers in bubble wrap at the moment, so it's not immediately clear how many snaps we'll likely play him.  But beyond Pep, Addison, and Horton, the depth is still somewhat unclear.  Right now my guess is that Hall and Haynes should make the cut. 

But there's also Bryan Cox in the mix.  I also wonder whether any of these possible depth guys (Hall, Haynes or Cox) are strong in sealing the edge.  It was interesting that we just picked up another DE (Sterling Bailey) whose strength is in run defense, suggesting the coaches see a possible weakness in our depth in that regard.  Something to watch.  As for Obada, I assume he'll be sent to the PS again with the international player exemption.

 

DT:  KK / Poe / Butler / Love 

Hard to see anything changing here, especially as we've already cut 2 DTs in camp.  I'd guess Norton will make the PS.

 

LB:  TD's suspension mixes things up a bit here.  

Luke / TD* / Shaq / Mayo / Carter   / ?  ? 

Carter seems like a lock at this point, but TD won't be on the roster until week 6 (4 games & bye).  So.... to start the season, that leaves 2 spots open as I can't see us keeping less than 6 backers.  

I'd think the edge goes to Jacobs & Norris because of their experience, but Smith could be in the mix...

 

CB:   The top 3 seems pretty clear at the moment:  Bradberry / Jackson / Munnerlyn.   But beyond that are 3 ? ? ? especially since we've been hearing all about rotating at CB2 to provide better match ups...

In the mix:  Seymour, Doss & Elder or someone not yet on our roster.   We need to hope 1 or 2 of these guys steps up.  Cockrell's injury is pretty devastating to this group.  It might seem the questions here are merely the order of these 3 guys on the depth chart.  But I don't know that Ron and other would be happy relying on what are essentially 3 rookies at CB (Jackson, Doss, Elder). Heaven knows we've done it before, but results were bad.  So.... I'm guessing we'll add another CB via FA signing, trade or picking up someone cut by a team with too much depth at CB.    But right now depth at this group is a big concern.  It has been a big relief actually to see Captain playing so well at both nickel AND outside corner (when he got reps there on Saturday).  We really need him to be a leader among the DBs.  And, in spite of concerns about depth, I'm very hopeful for Jackson.  He's a real bright spot in an otherwise worrying position group..

 

S:  With the injury to Parms, I'd say we've got a pretty clear 4 guys now:  Adams / Searcy / Gaulden / Jones

I don't see any question marks or potential upsets here.

 

Thoughts??-

-----

TL;DR: Here are the spots on the depth chart still up for grabs, IMO:

QB2

TE3

RB3

OL 9 & OL 10

DE 4 & DE 5

LB 6 & 7' (*one of whom will presumably be released when TD comes back)

CB 4 / CB 5 / CB 6

Kyle Friend and Bisnowoty for OL.

Obada did good in the first preseason game but the issue with PS for him, I think the exemption is for extra but not from other teams from signing him but hopefully he develops for one more year and end up on the 53 next year. 

Haynes will make it and Cox.

Norris over Jacob for Special Team/backup OLB.

CB will have Doss, Seymour and Corn as the final three. Seymour, his wife had their child the next night so his head was not in the game prob due to that. This next preseason game is most important for him to prove or be cut imo as a second chance to prove himself.

Hood might win RB3 if he continues to pass block well, catch and run tough.

For backup QB, Heinicke (dilly dilly)