USA Today on how the Panthers are absolutely dumb for not playing Curtis Samuel

[Mr. Scot]

3 hours ago, top dawg said:

Actually, I like what I've seen out of Hurney 2.0, and I think that he made some solid moves. I know that it it's not popular, but I want to see what Hurney does this next offseason.

With the major changes we have on the horizon, we're not just talking about a typical offseason tweaking.  We're talking about a GM being able to reshape the roster for the next several years to come.

You're suggesting we trust that to the guy who traded for Torrey Smith and Corey Robinson, signed Dontari Poe and Da'Norris Searcy, cut CJ Anderson in favor of Kenjon Barner and Travaris Cadet, thought Brad Kaaya was worth cutting Joe Webb for and chose Graham Gano over Harrison Butker. 

I'd add that our "stellar draft" at this point is still really just two guys, and Hurney has shown he's not a consistent enough drafter to be trusted over a long period.  It also means you've got heavy faith in a guy who traded a future first for Everette Brown and tried to trade one for Jimmy Clausen.

But even if you're still a fan of him as a drafter, his free agency haul was average at best, and that's probably being generous.  You don't get Hurney the drafter without Hurney the free agency manager.

As has been mentioned, Hurney looked decent for the first few years last time because all he was doing was tweaking a largely existing roster.  The more influence he had over the full team, the more consistently mediocre we were.

No way in hell do I trust him with a major retooling like what next year is shaping up to be. 

[Shaqil915]

Even opposing coaches see it... 

Ron might be coaching for his job Sunday, without the win or loss even being taken into account.

[RumHam]

If this ends up being a big picture situation to somehow sneak in and our best playmakers end up out there in the majority of snaps, does Rivera get a pass?

[JayNasty]

18 hours ago, ImaginaryKev said:

Samuel and Moore is gonna be like Torrey Holt and Isaac Bruce next year with the new coach Tepper gets us

I like

In more recent comparisons, Im thinking  AB and JuJu.  

[Mr. Scot]

2 hours ago, RumHam said:

If this ends up being a big picture situation to somehow sneak in and our best playmakers end up out there in the majority of snaps, does Rivera get a pass?

No.

We've spent enough time already with a coach who will fight tooth and nail against changing anything until it's too late and his job is on the line.

[ickmule]

Rivera has kept many great players on the bench during his tenure for less than stellar talent.  It’s onr reason this team has stumbled since Rivera took over.   

[jfra78]

6 minutes ago, ickmule said:

Rivera has kept many great players on the bench during his tenure for less than stellar talent.  It’s onr reason this team has stumbled since Rivera took over.   

how would you know?

[davos]

6 hours ago, JayNasty said:

I like

In more recent comparisons, Im thinking  AB and JuJu.  

A more milktoast version being Jackson-Maclin.  

[davos]

Come to think of it, Samuel reminds me A LOT of a young Desean Jackson.  We should have him returning punts over Byrd & CMC or maybe pick random moments where it's him back there.   

[top dawg]

15 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

With the major changes we have on the horizon, we're not just talking about a typical offseason tweaking.  We're talking about a GM being able to reshape the roster for the next several years to come.

You're suggesting we trust that to the guy who traded for Torrey Smith and Corey Robinson, signed Dontari Poe and Da'Norris Searcy, cut CJ Anderson in favor of Kenjon Barner and Travaris Cadet, thought Brad Kaaya was worth cutting Joe Webb for and chose Graham Gano over Harrison Butker. 

I'd add that our "stellar draft" at this point is still really just two guys, and Hurney has shown he's not a consistent enough drafter to be trusted over a long period.  It also means you've got heavy faith in a guy who traded a future first for Everette Brown and tried to trade one for Jimmy Clausen.

But even if you're still a fan of him as a drafter, his free agency haul was average at best, and that's probably being generous.  You don't get Hurney the drafter without Hurney the free agency manager.

As has been mentioned, Hurney looked decent for the first few years last time because all he was doing was tweaking a largely existing roster.  The more influence he had over the full team, the more consistently mediocre we were.

No way in hell do I trust him with a major retooling like what next year is shaping up to be. 

Torrey Smith was a sensible move, and a 5 million dollar price tag is still paltry for a receiver with his experience. Dontari Poe was also a sensible move, and that's why it was lauded at the time. Even in retrospect, though Poe has not necessarily met his perceived potential, for the price we paid, it's hardly worth complaining about. Poe is a space-eater still with the best of them. Searcy was also a sensible move at the time. He was never expected to be anything more than a slightly above average safety, and his salary reflects that. And of course Corey Robinson was brought in due to injury, so what's the problem with that? Nothing. 

As for CJ Anderson, he likely wanted to be released, and I don't see the signing of Barner or Cadet as anything but smart considering the circumstances.

People still crying about Gano over Butker are just more interested in complaining about something than nothing. Gano has arguably been the best kicker in the league since being re-signed, even better than Butker, so big freakin' deal.

On an island and in hindsight, any deal can look bad or good without context, but given the context, I think Hurney made fully sensible moves. They were certainly not worth getting hot and bothered about. 

As for the draft, I would say that Hurney did pretty well. Two up and coming stars is a good haul, and the jury is still out on a couple of guys, but I would bet that at least one more quality player will emerge out of those two. 

Sure, you can talk about past history, and that's all good, but that's why I specifically referred to Hurney's second tenure. He is in a unique position to do some good things after studying the team from afar and learning from his own past errors. It could lead to positive a outcome, but if Tepper decides to wipe the slate clean and go in another direction, that's fully understandable as well. The fact is, that I believe it's still too early to say or assume with any surety that Hurney or Rivera have one foot out the door. There is still football to be played, including key games. Rivera has rallied the troops before in past years about this time of season, so I'd put the shovel down for a bit until we see what transpires.

[Mr. Scot]

4 hours ago, top dawg said:

Torrey Smith was a sensible move, and a 5 million dollar price tag is still paltry for a receiver with his experience. Dontari Poe was also a sensible move, and that's why it was lauded at the time. Even in retrospect, though Poe has not necessarily met his perceived potential, for the price we paid, it's hardly worth complaining about. Poe is a space-eater still with the best of them. Searcy was also a sensible move at the time. He was never expected to be anything more than a slightly above average safety, and his salary reflects that. And of course Corey Robinson was brought in due to injury, so what's the problem with that? Nothing. 

As for CJ Anderson, he likely wanted to be released, and I don't see the signing of Barner or Cadet as anything but smart considering the circumstances.

People still crying about Gano over Butker are just more interested in complaining about something than nothing. Gano has arguably been the best kicker in the league since being re-signed, even better than Butker, so big freakin' deal.

On an island and in hindsight, any deal can look bad or good without context, but given the context, I think Hurney made fully sensible moves. They were certainly not worth getting hot and bothered about. 

As for the draft, I would say that Hurney did pretty well. Two up and coming stars is a good haul, and the jury is still out on a couple of guys, but I would bet that at least one more quality player will emerge out of those two. 

Sure, you can talk about past history, and that's all good, but that's why I specifically referred to Hurney's second tenure. He is in a unique position to do some good things after studying the team from afar and learning from his own past errors. It could lead to positive a outcome, but if Tepper decides to wipe the slate clean and go in another direction, that's fully understandable as well. The fact is, that I believe it's still too early to say or assume with any surety that Hurney or Rivera have one foot out the door. There is still football to be played, including key games. Rivera has rallied the troops before in past years about this time of season, so I'd put the shovel down for a bit until we see what transpires.

Dude, if your criteria for judging a deal is "well it looked sensible at the time", that's a pretty low standard. There's some other moves we can apply that to that I'm pretty sure you were against.

Regardless, if you're prepared to turn the blind eye every time Hurney makes a mistake and only "accentuate the positive", then it's easy to be okay with him...or anybody, including Rivera.

If you're fully prepared to entrust next season's rebuild to these too yahoos, I can't help you.

[top dawg]

28 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Dude, if your criteria for judging a deal is "well it looked sensible at the time", that's a pretty low standard. There's some other moves we can apply that to that I'm pretty sure you were against.

Regardless, if you're prepared to turn the blind eye every time Hurney makes a mistake and only "accentuate the positive", then it's easy to be okay with him...or anybody, including Rivera.

If you're fully prepared to entrust next season's rebuild to these too yahoos, I can't help you.

No one is perfect. It's easy to jump on the pile when someone is down. It's also convenient to disregard the positive and mis-characterize happenings without context, especially when conveniently forgetting cap realities, contractual handcuffs, lack of available talent or even quality Band-Aids, etc. 

The problem (IMO) this year has been much more Rivera than Hurney. That's just a fact. Even still, the writing is not yet on the wall. If we outright tank and miss the playoffs, then all this chatter about washing the slate clean becomes loud and clear. Either that or a move by Tepper. Until then, it's all just noise from whiny fans. But boy if we go to the postseason and actually win one or two, that may easily justify another year for the ship to be fully righted. People forget that one thing that is a hallmark of the organization from which Tepper came: Patience. The Steelers knock on the door seemingly year after year, and never completely fall off the map. Tepper may have wanted Tomlin gone, maybe, but that was after years. He hasn't even been here for one year. 

At the end of the day, I'll be good either way. I just think that you can't have an honest discussion without context.

[unicar15]

This is why you don’t think about committing money to Funchess. Two very promising receivers behind him on rookie deals who could break out and then you’re screwed bc you gave a lot of money to a guy just bc he’s 6’4”

 

They need to let Funchess walk and get height on the field by giving Thomas more playing time. 

[stankowalski]

On 11/20/2018 at 1:23 PM, Mr. Scot said:

Rivera has just never been good when it comes to setting a depth chart or playing time, and he's loathe to admit mistakes.

I'm beginning to accept that we've probably gone about as far as we can go with him.

So Rivera sets the offensive depth chart?  Shouldn't Norv be doing that since he's the mastermind OC?