We are in all-too-familiar territory

[panthers55]

15 minutes ago, Varking said:

The issue is the GM and Coach want Cam out there now because he gives them the best chance to win now. And you play to win games. Losing games means they lose their jobs. The players want Cam to play because he can still play well above average with his shoulder how it is. He had one disaster game this week against the Bucs but there is no reason he can't be the guy he was most of the season. Those WRs need their stats. The TEs need their stats to get paid. When it comes time to sign guys in the offseason the other teams won't care that Taylor can't cut it as a NFL starting QB they will see you had 40 receptions for 550 yards and 3 tds for the year and thats how you will get paid. 

Aaron Rodgers came back from injury because his team was in the playoff hunt one year, lost some games so it became clear they couldn't win into the playoffs and went back on IR. Here we are just a season or two later and people question his leaderships abilities. Part of leading your guys is being out there with them. Why should anyone play hurt for you if you won't play hurt for them? Until we have a better option at QB, Cam should be out there. Now we can be smart with how we play Cam. If we are up 3 scored midway through the third, sit him. If we are down 3 scores in the 3rd, sit him. This is how you give Taylor time to play against NFL starters without making your star QB look like he is only in this for himself. 

What coaches or GMs have the luxury to not worry about wins or losses this season versus next year or two years down the road? The NFL stands for Not For Long. With a new owner who is unknown, you would have to ignorant or naive not to care about winning now. But the truth is that given Heinicke gets most of the reps these days in practice he might be the better option to start if Cam is limited. I wouldn't be surprised if Heinicke starts at some.point this year.

[t96]

4 hours ago, 4Corners said:

If they lose Sunday, cam needs to go on IR. 

Good luck with that. He wasn't even on the injury report for this game. Unless he gets hurt for real in the last 4 games he's going to finish out the season, regardless of winning or losing.

[Varking]

12 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

What coaches or GMs have the luxury to not worry about wins or losses this season versus next year or two years down the road? The NFL stands for Not For Long. With a new owner who is unknown, you would have to ignorant or naive not to care about winning now. But the truth is that given Heinicke gets most of the reps these days in practice he might be the better option to start if Cam is limited. I wouldn't be surprised if Heinicke starts at some.point this year.

That is my point. Cam at 70% is probably still years ahead of Heinicke right now. So he gives the team, the gm and Ron the best chance to win now while also helping get the WRs and new TE developed for next season. The only guy who would likely tell you behind the scenes that he doesn't want Cam throwing to him would have been KB but he puts up numbers with any other QB. 

[panthers55]

Just now, Varking said:

That is my point. Cam at 70% is probably still years ahead of Heinicke right now. So he gives the team, the gm and Ron the best chance to win now while also helping get the WRs and new TE developed for next season. The only guy who would likely tell you behind the scenes that he doesn't want Cam throwing to him would have been KB but he puts up numbers with any other QB. 

I don't know if that is true. But Cam will start unless he really is hurt. You don't sit your starting QB unless you think you have to. It kills his confidence and undermi es his leadership.

[TheRed]

41 minutes ago, Varking said:

The issue is the GM and Coach want Cam out there now because he gives them the best chance to win now. And you play to win games. Losing games means they lose their jobs. The players want Cam to play because he can still play well above average with his shoulder how it is. He had one disaster game this week against the Bucs but there is no reason he can't be the guy he was most of the season. Those WRs need their stats. The TEs need their stats to get paid. When it comes time to sign guys in the offseason the other teams won't care that Taylor can't cut it as a NFL starting QB they will see you had 40 receptions for 550 yards and 3 tds for the year and thats how you will get paid. 

Aaron Rodgers came back from injury because his team was in the playoff hunt one year, lost some games so it became clear they couldn't win into the playoffs and went back on IR. Here we are just a season or two later and people question his leaderships abilities. Part of leading your guys is being out there with them. Why should anyone play hurt for you if you won't play hurt for them? Until we have a better option at QB, Cam should be out there. Now we can be smart with how we play Cam. If we are up 3 scored midway through the third, sit him. If we are down 3 scores in the 3rd, sit him. This is how you give Taylor time to play against NFL starters without making your star QB look like he is only in this for himself. 

What on earth are you babbling about? You're way overthinking things here.

Newton has been all but teflon throughout his entire career. He's never been shy to play through injuries or put his body on the line for the team. If he can play he will play. All this other nonsense about leadership is white noise.

[Varking]

13 minutes ago, TheRed said:

What on earth are you babbling about? You're way overthinking things here.

Newton has been all but teflon throughout his entire career. He's never been shy to play through injuries or put his body on the line for the team. If he can play he will play. All this other nonsense about leadership is white noise.

Which is why Cam will be playing despite the OPs wishes. 

[juliosantos]

Cam is hurt , he looks like crap compared to earlier in the year . We need to groom a solid qb behind him 

[TheSpecialJuan]

We won 4 straight prior to getting killed in Pittsburgh...... then lost 4 straight..... could we possibly then win 4 straight??

[Pimpdaddy]

Yea...we know....its a recurring theme..and it ain't gonna change..unless my btch Tep changes it...

[Carolina Cajun]

9 hours ago, MHS831 said:

The good news:

  Rivera is undefeated in games where his job seems to be on the line.  We will steal a victory from the jaws of mediocrity on Sunday.

The bad news: 

It seems that every time we become mathematically eliminated (essentially) from a playoff spot we go on a win streak that kills our draft seeding. 

Rivera will allow Cam to play hurt to help his chances of clinging to a job. He has allowed him to play hurt in meaningless games before.   Before you get mad at him, ask yourself, "What would I (meaning "you") do?

This offseason...

Could be one of the most interesting in team history, especially if RR is fired.  Veterans like Davis, Peppers, Olsen, Kalil I and II, Adams, etc. are likely to be out.  I was looking over the roster, and I count 20 players who could be/should be in their final season.  That is almost 40% of the roster.   Interesting decisions concerning contracts will be critical to this team's long term success (Funchess, Williams, etc).

  

 

Honestly, Tepper won't care, even if we keep rivera, you can basically say goodbye to the old guard.  it's over.  This is also a reason why I say eff it, toss Jermaine Carter out there, keep Gaulden on the field even if it kills our spirits.  Thomas is getting action.  This draft class has a chance to be very good, but the best way to learn is on the job, just toss em out and hope they land on their feet, if not we know what we need in the draft next year.

[MHS831]

8 hours ago, Varking said:

If he can play, he can play. We aren't eliminated from the playoffs yet and he is the leader of our team. Cam has been missing time in practice due to his shoulder all year. It is only a story now because we just found out he might need surgery after the season, which would have been the case anyway. The same shoulder he played on last week is the shoulder he played on during our 6-2 start. Its only a big deal now because we are losing. Cam should IR if the season is lost but not when there is still hope. 

So you are saying the arm is the same now as  it was duirng the first half of the season?

  We pulled Cam to throw a Hail Mary.  We pulled  one of the strongest arms in the NFL--for a QB from Old Dominion because we needed his arm strength.  Think about that.

[MHS831]

8 minutes ago, Carolina Cajun said:

Honestly, Tepper won't care, even if we keep rivera, you can basically say goodbye to the old guard.  it's over.  This is also a reason why I say eff it, toss Jermaine Carter out there, keep Gaulden on the field even if it kills our spirits.  Thomas is getting action.  This draft class has a chance to be very good, but the best way to learn is on the job, just toss em out and hope they land on their feet, if not we know what we need in the draft next year.

I agree with this, but I  doubt the old guard leaves and Rivera remains if we play .500 or below.  I may be wrong, but Cam's arm is done for this season.  Heinicke subbing for him to throw a Hail Mary---say no more.  Could have been a stinger, but if not...I love the "play Carter, Smith, Gaulden, Thomas, etc. approach if Cam is injured.   We cannot win without his arm healthy.

[Varking]

5 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

So you are saying the arm is the same now as  it was duirng the first half of the season?

  We pulled Cam to throw a Hail Mary.  We pulled  one of the strongest arms in the NFL--for a QB from Old Dominion because we needed his arm strength.  Think about that.

I already made a thread about that. Go check the video of both throws. They both threw the same amount of air yards on their hail Marys. Yes, I do think during our 6-2 run his arm was the same as it is now, more or less.

Edit; Taking him out on a completely luck based play to end the game where he likely takes another shot where the line struggled to protect him most of the game was the right call. 

[MHS831]

Just now, Varking said:

I already made a thread about that. Go check the video of both throws. They both threw the same amount of air yards on their hail Marys. Yes, I do think during our 6-2 run his arm was the same as it is now, more or less. 

So are you citing yourself as a source to support your opinion?  There was a play when he stretched out to run for a first down near the sideline.  They showed him grimace as he walked back to the huddle.  You are basing your opinion on a throw-video footage.  You really can't do that because so much has to do with velocity, body positioning, wind, etc.  They took out Cam for a reason, one that you may not know--that is not an opinion.