Curtis Samuel needs more touches

[Davidson Deac II]

31 minutes ago, Tepper's Chest Hair said:

While I agree, part of it is an aspect of Allen that I generally like.  Allen seems to spread the ball out.  A lot.  If you take away CMC's touches, these are our receiving group touches (receiving and rushing) under Allen:

Samuel 14 

DJ Moore 12

Wright 8

Olsen 8

Hogan 

Samuel is the top targeted receiver when you remove CMC from the equation.  

DJ has 39 targets, Samuel 37.  Samuel does get more rushes though.  

[Seoul_Panther]

13 minutes ago, NAS said:

Let's face it, Allen has left plenty of opportunities on the field.  

So, is your point that he should get targeted more or that you think his failure is due to Allen?

I don't think he is a genuine WR or RB. He's a lightning fast gadget player, who is most dangerous with YAC  Doesn't need more targets he needs more catches  He and Moore are feast or famine players neither of whom have lived up to their draft position. But yeah blame the backup QB. Easy target.

[Moo Daeng]

Samuel just might not be the receiver we want him to be at this point. 

[NAS]

4 minutes ago, Seoul_Panther said:

So, is your point that he should get targeted more or that you think his failure is due to Allen?

I don't think he is a genuine WR or RB. He's a lightning fast gadget player, who is most dangerous with YAC  Doesn't need more targets he needs more catches  He and Moore are feast or famine players neither of whom have lived up to their draft position. But yeah blame the backup QB. Easy target.

It's both.  I'm saying that Allen has done a good job but isn't perfect.  It was in response to the "throw to the open man" as if he's done that to perfection.  It could be a result of the plays that Norv calls, we don't really know.  All I know is that he's a dynamic weapon who can do more with the ball after catch. 

DJ Moore is on pace for 1100 yds this season so I think he's doing just fine.  I disagree with you, I think Samuel has what it takes to be a complimentary WR, he just needs more opportunities.  

[NAS]

18 minutes ago, Wolfpack352 said:

So has Cam, missed open receivers as well as overthrown them.  Actually....every QB has missed open players even Brady, sit down and review the play tablet, listen to what your receivers are saying and try again.  

This isn't a Cam vs. Allen debate, we have plenty of threads for that.  I was responding to the notion that Allen is somehow just throwing to open receivers.  We know that's not really the case, he has been solid but not perfect, especially the last game.  So the point is - Samuel can and should be utilized more.  

[NAS]

49 minutes ago, *FreeFua* said:

Had Kyle recognized the Hayden blitz on that 2nd down play on their 2nd drive, he had Samuel over top for 6. 

 

Exactly

[Seoul_Panther]

2 minutes ago, NAS said:

It's both.  I'm saying that Allen has done a good job but isn't perfect.  It was in response to the "throw to the open man" as if he's done that to perfection.  It could be a result of the plays that Norv calls, we don't really know.  All I know is that he's a dynamic weapon who can do more with the ball after catch. 

DJ Moore is on pace for 1100 yds this season so I think he's doing just fine.  I disagree with you, I think Samuel has what it takes to be a complimentary WR, he just needs more opportunities.  

I like Samuel on reverses and jet sweeps but he isn't close to the player that saca was talking up when we drafted him. I don't say that because I dislike him. His catch rate isn't good enough. He has been outproduced every season by Zay Jones the Buffalo WR who was just traded to Oakland for a 2021 5th. Because he's fast people keep talking about his potential  Fact is he's a dynamic athlete who is frequently talked up but has never brought consistent production.

 As for Moore, yes 1000 yards is great but 1 TD is not. His fumbles have cost us at least 3 games. He isn't winning us games and I highly doubt other teams are saying uhoh when they see his name. Compare that to what you might hope for from a 1st rounder. It ain't Treadwell but nor is it Hopkins.

[Peppers90 NC]

11 minutes ago, Seoul_Panther said:

I like Samuel on reverses and jet sweeps but he isn't close to the player that saca was talking up when we drafted him. I don't say that because I dislike him. His catch rate isn't good enough. He has been outproduced every season by Zay Jones the Buffalo WR who was just traded to Oakland for a 2021 5th. Because he's fast people keep talking about his potential  Fact is he's a dynamic athlete who is frequently talked up but has never brought consistent production.

 As for Moore, yes 1000 yards is great but 1 TD is not. His fumbles have cost us at least 3 games. He isn't winning us games and I highly doubt other teams are saying uhoh when they see his name. Compare that to what you might hope for from a 1st rounder. It ain't Treadwell but nor is it Hopkins.

You can't use Samuel's catch rate for this season especially after the Buccs game. Too many balls have been uncatchable. Then he has also drawn 2 maybe 3 deep pass interferences. 

[Seoul_Panther]

2 hours ago, Peppers90 NC said:

You can't use Samuel's catch rate for this season especially after the Buccs game. Too many balls have been uncatchable. Then he has also drawn 2 maybe 3 deep pass interferences. 

Why not? Are we sure he ran the correct route? I take your point on the PI that's fair. My point is all I ever hear on Samuel is excuses.  He is considered a #2 receiver but his output is exceeded by a guy who was just traded for a 2021 5th round pick  It's projection. It's amazing that he gets so many passes from this fanbase.

  To quote @NAS

Quote

I think Samuel has what it takes to be a complimentary WR

This is true. But the fact is he hasn't yet. After two and a half years when are we going to stop projecting his impact and start expecting it? At the risk of flogging a dead horse he has significantly worse production than another 2nd round receiver (Zay Jones) drafted at the same time in Buffalo, who that fanbase are thrilled to be rid of. Do you not find it strange that our fanbase is happy to the point that he is unanimously accepted as #2 for less output. Because I think that is rather curious.

[Tepper's Chest Hair]

2 hours ago, Davidson Deac II said:

DJ has 39 targets, Samuel 37.  Samuel does get more rushes though

I was specifically looking at only under Allen.  

[t96]

2 hours ago, *FreeFua* said:

Would love to see a healthy Cam with Samuel

This year’s Samuel with 2015 Cam would put up 1500+ yards easy.

[GoobyPls]

With Allen at QB and Norv as OC I’m almost accepting the fact both Moore and Samuel will be underutilized. Norv is obsessed with Mccaffrey to the point he has him throwing the ball just to fill his stat sheet and Allen is a one read QB.

[kungfoodude]

2 hours ago, Moo Daeng said:

Samuel just might not be the receiver we want him to be at this point. 

7.4 targets/game, 51.3% catch rate, 2 drops(leads team).

IMO, he just isn't getting the job done at this point. Let's just hope he is in a slump and starts to put it together.

[34yearoldsafety]

It appeared that over the summer, people were raving about Samuel's ability to bust the defense consistently deep over the top.

But much like many things that were reported over this summer (I.e our switch to primary 3-4), it has not come to fruition. Instead we have been using Samuel as a gadget, alternating end around after end around, bubble screen after bubble screen, with him and Jarius Wright. Which has a minimal effective rate, something good ol' Norv still hasn't seemed to understand.

But alas, some of the few deep passes that we have thrown him this year (Think 40 yd bomb from Cam on Thursday night, just missed deep post vs Texans, Under throw for int* vs Jax)  seem to work to the effect of blowing the top off of defenses. I think we should stop motioning him 10 yards in the backfield for naught, and start sending him deep, taking advantage of some of these crowded boxes/1 high safety sets that we've been seeing as a result of CMC's success.  Maybe Norv is just playing it safe with Kyle Allen, but I predict that this Sunday in London, we'll open it up a bit. (Cam had almost 400 yards in a horrible passing game against the heavy bucs blitz and below average secondary)

 

Keep Pounding, lets get Curtco involved!