Did we land 2 capable LTs in the draft???

[Matt62881]

7 minutes ago, Ivan The Awesome said:

But but but the Oline is trash. I guess it only applies to Newton. (eye roll)

The oline wasnt too good when williams was the LT, its only has good as its weakest link!

[Bartin]

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

200+ games isn't exactly a small sample size. I like the moves he's making in his second go round, but I haven't forgotten him torpedoing us with awful contracts and hellacious cap issues that got him fired the first time. I'm going to be a little cautious.

I blame Jerry for a lot of what happened after 2010 with the contracts. He forced Hurney to slash payroll so he could look poor as the lead in the CBA negotiations then afterwards Hurney had to spend a ton of money to meet spending minimums on guys that were not worthy of those contracts. Not to say Hurney is at all blameless because he definitely shares in that blame but Jerry was a big part of it as well.

[electro's horse]

16 minutes ago, GreensboroPirate said:

You're only as good as your franchise quarterback, and the Panthers were never bad enough after Jake to draft one high in the draft until 2011.

Unfortunately for Hurney, when he got the opportunity to draft a franchise quarterback in the first round, he was fired, and Gettleman got the credit for the Cam Newton led team he had built.

And if you're going to say he did a poor job at evaluating quarterbacks

He drafted Cam Newton and signed Kyle Allen as an UDFA.

 

This is absolutely revisionist history. 

Panthers couldn't draft a QB in 2009 because Hurney traded that pick for Jeff Otah. He couldn't sign a QB because he rewarded Delhomme for the Arizona game with a contract extension.

He couldn't draft a QB in 2010 because he traded that pick for Everette Brown the previous year. 

And it's not like Jake was some spring chicken. They could have targeted someone. But they were locked in to jake because of Hurney's actions. Then they were locked in to Moore because they had no other options. 

He was fired because the team underperformed in 2012 because they couldn't sign any free agents due to the hideous contracts he had given out after the lockout. Plus, he hadn't drafted a defensive tackle since Kris Jenkins. 

As far as evaluating QBs, yeah, he drafted Cam. He was so high on cam that the owner called Andrew luck and begged him to come out. The same guy that drafted Cam also drafted Randy Fasani, and Jimmy Clausen, and tony Pike, and Armanti Edwards. 

[07579394]

After the QB decision,is a LT decision?

[Captain Morgan]

it's a little early to say we have 2 stud LTs.   Damn sure good they have looked good, but it's too early, especially with the meat of the schedule ahead of us.

However, the statistical difference between to the two Bucs games is staggering.

Here's what Walter Football had about Daley going into the draft.  He was projected (by them) as a rd 3 to rd 5 pick.  He was there in the 6th and we took him.  The odds of him being a starter at LT in the NFL would have to be astronomical, but PFF named him the #1 LT this week.  Did Hurney strike gold?

 

 

Dennis Daley, OT, South Carolina
Height: 6-5. Weight: 317. Arm: 33.75. Hand: 9.63.
40 Time: 5.23. 10-Yd: 1.85. Three Cone: 7.95.
Bench: 20. Vertical: 26.5. Broad: 8-7.
Projected Round (2019): 3-5.
4/24/19: Daley is a Georgia Military College transfer who ended up becoming a solid player for the Gamecocks. After a strong senior season, Daley received an invitation to the Senior Bowl, and in the 2019 NFL Draft's weak offensive line class, he could rise. The 6-foot-6, 324-pounder has good size to him and started two straight seasons for South Carolina. Team sources tell me that Daley could be a mid-round pick in the 2019 NFL Draft. They really like his skill set, but his inconsistencies and playing down to some competition make him a very frustrating prospect for some scouts. That same pattern reveled itself with Daley at the Senior Bowl.
Read more at http://walterfootball.com/draft2019OT.php#L6tBKcdxoViD8xIr.99

[MasterAwesome]

16 minutes ago, Matt62881 said:

From my experience and i could be wrong, speed rushers are always harder to defend! Look at Remmers and about any other decent LT weve had.

I agree, and I think the prototypical pass-rushing DE has become those smaller finesse guys. There are still some of those DEs who can straight up bulldoze you, like a JJ Watt, Cam Jordan, Khalil Mack type...but yeah you’re right, generally our LTs have struggled against speed rushers so Daley is already off to an encouraging start!

[SmokinwithWilly]

19 minutes ago, Matt62881 said:

I also truly think hurney sat back and learned during the Gettleman years and truly came back a better GM...if he can somehow move the cap around and keep this team in tact for the forseable future....man he will be one of the better GMs in the league.

I've always said a combination of Hurney and Gettleman would make a good gm. Right now 2.0 looks good and seems to have mixed his and GMans strengths as GM well.

[ncfan]

7 minutes ago, Captain Morgan said:

it's a little early to say we have 2 stud LTs.   Damn sure good they have looked good, but it's too early, especially with the meat of the schedule ahead of us.

However, the statistical difference between to the two Bucs games is staggering.

Here's what Walter Football had about Daley going into the draft.  He was projected (by them) as a rd 3 to rd 5 pick.  He was there in the 6th and we took him.  The odds of him being a starter at LT in the NFL would have to be astronomical, but PFF named him the #1 LT this week.  Did Hurney strike gold?

 

 

Dennis Daley, OT, South Carolina
Height: 6-5. Weight: 317. Arm: 33.75. Hand: 9.63.
40 Time: 5.23. 10-Yd: 1.85. Three Cone: 7.95.
Bench: 20. Vertical: 26.5. Broad: 8-7.
Projected Round (2019): 3-5.
4/24/19: Daley is a Georgia Military College transfer who ended up becoming a solid player for the Gamecocks. After a strong senior season, Daley received an invitation to the Senior Bowl, and in the 2019 NFL Draft's weak offensive line class, he could rise. The 6-foot-6, 324-pounder has good size to him and started two straight seasons for South Carolina. Team sources tell me that Daley could be a mid-round pick in the 2019 NFL Draft. They really like his skill set, but his inconsistencies and playing down to some competition make him a very frustrating prospect for some scouts. That same pattern reveled itself with Daley at the Senior Bowl.
Read more at http://walterfootball.com/draft2019OT.php#L6tBKcdxoViD8xIr.99

Litterally dont go to the Cam vs Allen thread.

 

There are people convinced that Daley is worae than Kalil, Clark, and Williams were at LT

[WOW!!]

36 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

101-113

John Fox deserve blame for alot of that..

[Car123]

34 minutes ago, Ivan The Awesome said:

But but but the Oline is trash. I guess it only applies to Newton. (eye roll)

How many games has Newton played with Little or Daley?

[WOW!!]

27 minutes ago, Bartin said:

I blame Jerry for a lot of what happened after 2010 with the contracts. He forced Hurney to slash payroll so he could look poor as the lead in the CBA negotiations then afterwards Hurney had to spend a ton of money to meet spending minimums on guys that were not worthy of those contracts. Not to say Hurney is at all blameless because he definitely shares in that blame but Jerry was a big part of it as well.

So did most of the beat writers who have been saying the same thing for years..

[WOW!!]

1 minute ago, GreensboroPirate said:

What strength does Gettleman have in any area of being a general manager above Hurney?  I would love to hear the logic

Drafting in the 1st round no.

Drafting in the middle rounds, no;  this was an early myth of Gettleman supporters, but with more years, most of Gettleman's picks have busted, whereas Hurney has been drafting high quality guys in the middle rounds.

Free agency;  certainly not

Not giving out bad contracts?  Matt Kalil and Captain Munnerlyn want to have a word.

Signing undrafted free agents?  Kyle Allen is a lot more valuable than Andrew Norwell ever was.

What are these Gettleman strengths?

He was better at finding under the radar veterans and knowing when to kill loyalty and make the better business decision for the team..

[WOW!!]

Just now, GreensboroPirate said:

Except that he wasn't.  Which of these 'under the radar veterans' was better than the Bruce Irvin signing (absolute bargain contract).

Kurt Coleman?

And Gettleman only gave out terrible contracts for a couple of years around the new CBA at Jerry's behest.  This is another myth.

 

Kurt Colemen.. He had 2 pro bowl season for the team.. Peanut Tilman, Drayton Florence,  Kyle love, Jericho cotchery,  and Michael ore had success here. 

[electro's horse]

24 minutes ago, GreensboroPirate said:

The draft picks he traded for Otah and Brown would not have been high enough in the draft to get a franchise quarterback.  Have you ever looked at the success rate of mid to late 1st round quarterbacks selected?  You really need a top 5 pick to have good odds at a franchise quarterback.

Unless you wanted us to select Josh Freeman or Pat White in 2009, Stafford (1) was the only quality quarterback.  Or maybe you wish we would have drafted The Golden Calf of Bristol in 2010, because that was the only QB selected in the 1st round of 2010 after the 1st pick.

Who could they have targeted?    These are the same weak and facile arguments Hurney haters always use to run away from the fact he took a small market franchise with a bad owner to 2 Super Bowls (yes, 2015 was all players he drafted).

We all know the 'hideous contracts' were mostly Jerry's meddling.

And Jimmy Clausen is no worse than your average 2nd round quarterback. 90% of quarterbacks selected in the 2nd round wash out of the league after a couple of years.  You could go through the list and be surprised at how difficult it is to draft a qb in the 2nd round or beyond.

You're complaining about Tony Pike, a 6th round pick.

 

Are we just playing what if now? And we can just do whatever we want assuming every single thing would turn out exactly the same as it did? Fine, trade for Aaron Rodgers instead of drafting DeAngelo Williams. I'm pointing out specific things that happened and Hurney did and the impacts they had. You're tossing your hands in the air and ignoring what happened because you lack imagination. 

And the contracts...we do? Did Richardson force him to make Chris Gamble the highest paid corner in the league? Did richardson force him to give jake that contract then let him cut him? The owner that famously didn't know who most of the players on the team were demanded Hurney extend.....James Anderson? 

And 2015 was all his players? You wanna look at that roster before you say that? 

Clausen was fuging horrific, and worst of all Hurney tried to trade the Cam Newton pick to get him. 

And yes I'm bringing up Tony Pike; Hurney drafted him. You're holding up Kyle Allen, an UDFA who fell into his lap.