Is Kyle Allen Actually A Good QB?

[SBiii]

Yes.

[Davidson Deac II]

8 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

In the career of every NFL player, there are three questions that have to be answered (in order).

1) Are they good or bad?

2) If they're good, how good?

3) However good they are, how long are they going to stay that good?

As far as Allen goes, we've answered question number one. Yes, he's good.

We're now trying to answer question number two.

There is a fourth one that applies mostly to QB's.  

4.  How good are they in crunch time, ie with 2 minutes or less and down by one score.  This is where the difference between pretty good and great is.  

[rico6]

Is Allen a good QB? Yes.

Does he need a Top 10 D and CMAC to be a good QB? Yes.

 

I’ll be the first to say that I’ve shitposted in many a Saca thread, but this thread is damn good content. Cheers.

[Mr. Scot]

12 minutes ago, Davidson Deac II said:

There is a fourth one that applies mostly to QB's.  

4.  How good are they in crunch time, ie with 2 minutes or less and down by one score.  This is where the difference between pretty good and great is.  

Agree in part.

Some guys are clutch in that situation. Other guys are clutch in that they don't often get themselves into that situation.

Take Elway. Everybody remembers him for his last minute comebacks, but the reason they needed so many of those is because they were losing late in the game.

On the flipside, you've got a guy like Brady. He's certainly capable of leading a 4th quarter comeback, but generally isn't in a position to need one.

I kinda like the second approach better, but yeah the first one is necessary sometimes.

[Mr. Scot]

7 minutes ago, rico6 said:

Is Allen a good QB? Yes.

Does he need a Top 10 D and CMAC to be a good QB? Yes.

I’ll be the first to say that I’ve shitposted in many a Saca thread, but this thread is damn good content. Cheers.

Can you name a quarterback that doesn't benefit from having a good team around him?

Or think of it this way: Does Christian McCaffrey still look as good as he does now if it's Jimmy Clausen under center?

Funny, but when people name the greatest quarterbacks of all time, the name "Manning" pretty much always comes up, but it's always Peyton, never Archie

I actually think Archie does deserve at least a little consideration on that topic. He really was a great quarterback, but the team around him was always such a total sh-t show that you never knew just how good he could have been.

[1of10Charnatives]

13 hours ago, electro's horse said:

No one:

Absolutely no one:

Saca: well let me post a paper brick about Kyle Allen

Sometimes you don't know you want a thing until someone puts it in front of you. I wasn't asking for this analysis, but now that it's been provided, I've thoroughly enjoyed it. I think Saca did a great job getting in depth into where Allen's current strengths and weaknesses lie, where there is room for optimism and where there is room for improvement.

Are you honestly saying you'd rather see more pages and pages of people ranting at each other emotionally with all sorts of absurd claims and accusations flying back and forth and pointless personal insults laid on so heavy you'd think Sam's Club had a bulk discount sale on them? I can't speak for anyone else but I'll take stuff like this over that nonsense every day of the week.

[JARROD]

Longest post ever— 

like ever ever.

but it was very interesting and well worked. Was definitely better than 90% of the clickbait hack articles on the network sites.

 

[1of10Charnatives]

9 hours ago, mav1234 said:

I agree, but ffs, we have backs other than Cmac that could be better in such short yardage... we don't need our QB being a battering ram, regardless of who is back there.

I feel where you are coming from, and tbh I'm not sure I want Cam running into lb's much anymore, the man is 30, but part of what you acheive when your qb is a threat to run the ball is to force the defense to defend 11 men instead of 10. That was the appeal of the wildcat when it was briefly popular before defenses figured it out. If you take the qb out of the equation as dead weight on a running play, it makes it that much tougher on the defense. By the same token, if your qb is a viable threat to run the ball effectively, he must be accounted for even if he doesn't carry it every time.

What I would *really* like to see if Cam comes back healthy is some short yardage misdirection options maybe utilizing 2 rb's, or Armah, CMC and Cam, where out of one formation we can show multiple options using those 3 guys to attack the line of scrimmage at different points and leave defenses guessing where the ball is coming from in who's hands. That is where you get into some really fun stuff over time where the other team sees you do it one way on film, so next time you break out a different option out of the same formation, then a third, etc etc. Keeps em guessing.

[Davidson Deac II]

1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

Agree in part.

Some guys are clutch in that situation. Other guys are clutch in that they don't often get themselves into that situation.

Take Elway. Everybody remembers him for his last minute comebacks, but the reason they needed so many of those is because they were losing late in the game.

On the flipside, you've got a guy like Brady. He's certainly capable of leading a 4th quarter comeback, but generally isn't in a position to need one.

I kinda like the second approach better, but yeah the first one is necessary sometimes.

Brady is Mr Game winning drive.  Won 3 of his 5 SB rings on game winning drives.    Without the game winning drives,  Jake Delhomme might have a SB ring.  

 

[Mr. Scot]

8 minutes ago, Davidson Deac II said:

Brady is Mr Game winning drive.  Won 3 of his 5 SB rings on game winning drives.    Without the game winning drives,  Jake Delhomme might have a SB ring.  

To be fair, that one started at the 40 and ended with a field goal.

[Davidson Deac II]

6 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

To be fair, that one started at the 40 and ended with a field goal.

If all he needed was a fg, then its a GWD.  And if it had started from the 25, it wouldn't have mattered.  Brady got them into fg position with time to spare, even after an offensive PI call.

[DaveThePanther2008]

14 hours ago, PantherBrew said:

One thing we have to figure out, and maybe this is not the right thread for it, but short yardage situations.  This is where I feel like we miss a healthy Cam.  He used to make these almost guaranteed, which at worst kept drives alive, and lots of times helped put points on the board.  

When Cam comes back, there need to be no concerns about keeping him out of harms way. We need him diving over piles, running through LB's.  I think he needs this to get back his mojo.   Its fuging go time.  It time to win.

100% agree. If Cam can't be the Cam Newton of old than he's just another QB. He has to be that weapon they used to fear.

[GoPanthers123]

There are parallels to Ben R rookie season. Steelers has a good all around team, particularly on defence.  They won a crap load of games with him at QB and this example is not lost on Tepper. 

[panther252]

Amazing writeup. You are a real asset to this forum.