2015 seems like ages ago..what happened?

[The_Tolbert_Report]

wish i could go back and relive the glory days of 2015-16. Those were special moments. This team has imploded in spectacular fashion. It is a disaster to watch what this team has become 

[thefuzz]

11 hours ago, cardiackat88. said:

All these blames I have read in this post...

No one mentioned the Broncos fall from grace since then, the Eagles nosediving after winning the SB too.

Times change and tides shift.

There are a few things that I have been saying over and over lately.

2015 is possibly the worst thing to happen to this team.

And.

What is the difference between the Seahawks and the Panthers?  What makes them be able to sustain success with a similar model to the Panthers and us not be able to?

Pats, Steelers, Hawks....what is so different?

[Jangler]

 multiverse will fug with you in ways you can't imagine

[rippadonn]

Had Chudzinski and his offense stayed Cam would be a HOF lock. They didn't have a good oline back then but we had an OC that could scheme to the strengths of his players especially Cam. It was an offensive that was unpredictable and kept defenses off balance trying to figure out what Cam was going to do next. Fumblerooski?!? That took balls, and it worked. Greg Olsen AND Jeremy Shockey constantly gave Cam two great big outlets with sure hands.

The defense got dramatically better after he got poached for being successful developing Cam. Cams development declined little by little since that loss. Nobody has been better with Cam and I really question if anybody else will.

Success gets your assistant coaches better jobs. Replacing them isn't easy.

I'd say our offensive potential with Cam took a huge hit. Shula had Chuds playbook but that's a lightsaber in the hands of a non Jedi.

[Khyber53]

15 hours ago, Jmac said:

Only took this team four years to go from a SB team to one that comes close to the 2010 debacle. Let's hear some thoughts on what caused this swift downfall.

I'm sure letting Cam get killed and not addressing the Oline was a huge factor. Watching the defense turn into a clown circus in that same time frame is ridiculous. 

Was it the contracts, the drafting, or the coaching and front office that caused them to hit the skids so badly? Opinions???

This happens to a lot of teams that make it to the Superb Owl and it has been doing so since they started giving out the Lombardi Trophy. 

1. Making it to the championship game is a long, long haul. Three more games than most teams play and there are no weak sisters in the bunch.  Your team gets beat up and some folks are playing through injuries that should keep them out under normal circumstances (i.e. Jack Youngblood playing with a broken leg...). 

2. The poaching of coaching starts immediately after a Superb Owl as top coordinators are often picked to take over recently vacated HC positions. Sean McDermott to the Bills is our local example. Those coaches sometimes take other coaches or staff members with them.

3. Superb Owl inflation hits just about every impending free agent on the team, as well as any who consider this a good time renegotiate contracts. Please note that winning the championship does not come with an extra $20 million in salary cap levels. There is also one "playoffs superstar" that suddenly becomes the missing piece and a very expensive one -- whether they really deserve it or not. KK Short and Josh Norman come to mind.

4. Retirements of the old guard often come after championship games. They've been to the big dance after the long career and whether they have the ring or not, that long season and the short time before OTAs gets them to feeling their age. 

5. Draft order. You're no longer getting high picks but are stuck at the very bottom of the list making it that much harder to shore up holes in newly vacated positions. 

6. Strength of schedule changes. Outside of the division opponents and those that the entire division faces, your remaining games are generally slated against other playoff contenders.

7. The "we have arrived" mentality can set in. How do you motivate a team that either just won a championship or just lost it. It's tougher than you think.

8. And lastly, football is a tough game with tons of moving pieces, injuries, new strategies, plenty of game tape (especially after a long playoff run), and better league parity than in the past.

It makes our fall, and those of other SB contenders, pretty easy to see considering the competitive nature of the NFL and entropy in general. Teams that were dynasties somehow found the magic, but even they fell apart eventually.

[Randolph Panther]

The tide really seemed to change with those 2 back to back losses to Denver and the first couple of games in 2016.  Just never has been the same.  

[Forty-Eight]

16 hours ago, Jmac said:

Only took this team four years to go from a SB team to one that comes close to the 2010 debacle. Let's hear some thoughts on what caused this swift downfall.

I'm sure letting Cam get killed and not addressing the Oline was a huge factor. Watching the defense turn into a clown circus in that same time frame is ridiculous. 

Was it the contracts, the drafting, or the coaching and front office that caused them to hit the skids so badly? Opinions???

Marty Hurney and Ron Rivera 

[thefuzz]

1 hour ago, Randolph Panther said:

The tide really seemed to change with those 2 back to back losses to Denver and the first couple of games in 2016.  Just never has been the same.  

Teams started playing Cam differently after that game it seems.

[Mr. Scot]

To be fair, Atlanta started it. Denver just took their lead and ran with it.

Basically, Shula got figured out and couldn't counter, yet Rivera refused to give up on him.

Sooo... manyyy... stupid... mistakes...

[ThatsJustAJ]

15 hours ago, bobowilson said:

People have no idea how big losing Sean McDermott was.  He's one of the best coaches in the entire NFL and we should have made him head coach.

Buffalo does not really have much talent, and Josh Allen is a bottom 5 starting QB.

As great as Cam Newton was, we always had an elite defense until he left.

 

Luke McCown got over 300 yards on that elite defense.

They haven’t been elite during the Cam Newton era...elite was the broncos in SB50, the old Seahawks

[Lucian]

1 hour ago, Khyber53 said:

This happens to a lot of teams that make it to the Superb Owl and it has been doing so since they started giving out the Lombardi Trophy. 

1. Making it to the championship game is a long, long haul. Three more games than most teams play and there are no weak sisters in the bunch.  Your team gets beat up and some folks are playing through injuries that should keep them out under normal circumstances (i.e. Jack Youngblood playing with a broken leg...). 

2. The poaching of coaching starts immediately after a Superb Owl as top coordinators are often picked to take over recently vacated HC positions. Sean McDermott to the Bills is our local example. Those coaches sometimes take other coaches or staff members with them.

3. Superb Owl inflation hits just about every impending free agent on the team, as well as any who consider this a good time renegotiate contracts. Please note that winning the championship does not come with an extra $20 million in salary cap levels. There is also one "playoffs superstar" that suddenly becomes the missing piece and a very expensive one -- whether they really deserve it or not. KK Short and Josh Norman come to mind.

4. Retirements of the old guard often come after championship games. They've been to the big dance after the long career and whether they have the ring or not, that long season and the short time before OTAs gets them to feeling their age. 

5. Draft order. You're no longer getting high picks but are stuck at the very bottom of the list making it that much harder to shore up holes in newly vacated positions. 

6. Strength of schedule changes. Outside of the division opponents and those that the entire division faces, your remaining games are generally slated against other playoff contenders.

7. The "we have arrived" mentality can set in. How do you motivate a team that either just won a championship or just lost it. It's tougher than you think.

8. And lastly, football is a tough game with tons of moving pieces, injuries, new strategies, plenty of game tape (especially after a long playoff run), and better league parity than in the past.

It makes our fall, and those of other SB contenders, pretty easy to see considering the competitive nature of the NFL and entropy in general. Teams that were dynasties somehow found the magic, but even they fell apart eventually.

I agree with everything you have said and i wanted to add onto your last sentence avout dynasties. Dynasty teams like the patriots have success because good players are willing to play for less money for a chance at a superbowl. It is a self feeding loop and it is hard for a team to be able to put themselves i  that kind of position... i think if the pats win anpther championship soon the league should do something to break that team up imo.

[Sgt Schultz]

26 minutes ago, ThatsJustAJ said:

Luke McCown got over 300 yards on that elite defense.

They haven’t been elite during the Cam Newton era...elite was the broncos in SB50, the old Seahawks

Arguing over whether they deserve the term elite or not is pointless.  What the 2015 defense did was create and score off turnovers.  It was not unusual for the defense to actually steamroll an opponent early in the game, either putting up points while the offense stood on the sidelines or giving the offense very short fields to deal with.  Our defense has not done that since.

I have to agree with several others that said the offense got figured out and Shula did not adjust.  I'm not sure he knew how to adjust. 

NFL teams are one year entities.  Attrition through retirements, free agency, and injuries happen every year to every team.  You can look at New England's roster from year to year and while there are some obvious constants, there is also a healthy amount of turnover.  Accepting and planning for that keeps them among the top of the league year after year.  The Panthers history is reacting to it, which is what most teams do.  Reacting leaves you constantly chasing your tail trying to make up for last year's losses, when next year's attrition is in progress.

[DubE_4MR]

1. Retirements 
2. Injuries 
3. Free agency losses
4. Not developing young talent to fill in for 1-3

[Panthercougar68]

41 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

Teams started playing Cam differently after that game it seems.

Yeah...give him a concussion and you win!