NFL: Russell Wilson isn't sure he's getting enough calls

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, BrianS said:

Seems to me that "mobile" QB's tend to get fewer of the calls.  Big Ben doesn't seem to get very many for example.  I am constantly baffled by Rodgers though, he gets the calls while still having good mobility.

I agree with that completely. IMO, that is largely what the data would show if you did a comprehensive breakdown. IF that ended up being the case, it would be the league essentially discouraging that kind of play from a QB, although that is clearly the way the league is moving. 

CONVERSELY, I don't think that the league needs new rules and some of the recent rules are going too far(the Rodgers Rule, for instance). It's still football and QB's in the pocket shouldn't be treated as if they are made of glass, golden boys especially. Call it fairly, call it even. 

[WUnderhill]

It’s clear that Cam was treated differently by refs. It’s clear that if a players pinky grazes the helmet of Brees or Brady or several other QBs they get the call while Cam can get blasted helmet to helmet and get nothing.

But that excerpt in the OP is stupid as hell. “I don’t know” does not mean “yes”.

[TheRed]

I get it, and I support Wilson for speaking on it. As far as sympathy, there just isn't any here. I watched that Super Bowl he won with the Seahawks against the Broncos. That one was over as soon as it started. Nothing like the ours. That was one of the most lopsided victories I think I've ever seen. You've got a ring Russ, act like it. Could be much worse.

[kungfoodude]

2 minutes ago, WUnderhill said:

It’s clear that Cam was treated differently by refs. It’s clear that if a players pinky grazes the helmet of Brees or Brady or several other QBs they get the call while Cam can get blasted helmet to helmet and get nothing.

But that excerpt in the OP is stupid as hell. “I don’t know” does not mean “yes”.

I think just the fact that Russell spoke about it indicates it is something that QB's think about. As Panthers fans we have a distinct memory of getting hosed in the biggest game because the hits he received in that game would have gotten multi-game suspensions or large fines in a normal NFL situation. It would be different if it was just once during the game but it happened multiple times. That will obviously skew our perspective pretty considerably.

I do think that doing a serious statistical study of things like roughing or other late hit penalties would be interesting to see. 

[1of10Charnatives]

17 minutes ago, WUnderhill said:

It’s clear that Cam was treated differently by refs. It’s clear that if a players pinky grazes the helmet of Brees or Brady or several other QBs they get the call while Cam can get blasted helmet to helmet and get nothing.

But that excerpt in the OP is stupid as hell. “I don’t know” does not mean “yes”.

It doesn't literally, but in a situation in which a player knows he may be fined by the league or may incur negative reaction from those same officials for his comments, it's not unreasonable to infer that saying "I don't know" instead of a hard and definitive "no" might be a veiled way of saying yes. If your premise is that a player would have no reason not to speak directly and clearly, it wouldn't, but clearly there are at least two reasons Wilson might feel the need to code his answers.

[trueblade]

9 hours ago, Iron Saint said:

LOLOL, probably not as strongly as you thought but hey, I simply follow the numbers.

We’ve only gotten 2 roughing the passer calls in the last 2 years and only 5 in the last 3 years. Y’all have had 4 and 7 in those same spans. Both teams only had 1 this year.

It's not always that simple. The Saints have a much better OLine than the Panthers. You can't get a RTP penalty if you can't even get to the quarterback. The Panthers provide opposing teams with more 'opportunities' to hit the quarterback and draw those flags.

[Mr. Scot]

1 hour ago, BrianS said:

Seems to me that "mobile" QB's tend to get fewer of the calls.  Big Ben doesn't seem to get very many for example.  I am constantly baffled by Rodgers though, he gets the calls while still having good mobility.

With Roethlisberger, it was said to be more about his size than his mobility.

Basically, refs believed he could take the punishment.

[Mr. Scot]

37 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I do think that doing a serious statistical study of things like roughing or other late hit penalties would be interesting to see. 

A study probably would be a good idea because as it stands now, nobody that I know of keeps track of hits that could have been flagged but weren't, and that'd be something fairly important to this discussion.

[1of10Charnatives]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

With Roethlisberger, it was said to be more about his size than his mobility.

Basically, refs believed he could take the punishment.

Which, especially in light of what we now know about concussions and other brain injuries, is not only dumb AF, but a dangerous attitude to have, whether it’s Rothlisberger or Cam or anyone.

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, 1of10Charnatives said:

Which, especially in light of what we now know about concussions and other brain injuries, is not only dumb AF, but a dangerous attitude to have, whether it’s Rothlisberger or Cam or anyone.

I'd agree.

[Iron Saint]

17 hours ago, MHS831 said:

Yes, but the opposition gets to our QB more often than your QB.   Brees gets rid of the ball quicker and he is often seen throwing out of something called a "pocket."  We don't have those in Carolina. 

Touché.

8 hours ago, kungfoodude said:

That's not really the right way to process those numbers. You need to account for the times a QB is hit(which would give you a rate) and probably include a sample of three golden boy QB's and three more mobile QB's over that span. Since you would have a rate, a shorter career length would work, although anything less than 3-4 seasons would probably be my cut off. 

I did more tally work including 2 more teams with mobile QB’s and 2 more with pocket QB’s.

• Panthers: 30
• Saints: 25
• Falcons: 34
• Patriots: 23
• Packers: 25
• Seahawks: 27 (only from 2012 on)

Now these numbers only indicate the team, not necessarily a specific QB as I believe each starting QB on all the above teams have missed games at one time or another since 2011 (and in Wilson’s case wasn’t even in the league until 2012) and I don’t care enough to go back and figure out which games had a RTP call to see which QB was in.

If y’all want to do the QB hit rate, please be my guest.

But just looking at those raw numbers, both the Falcons and the Seahawks have had some comparatively busted offensive lines as y’all have had in Carolina in the same span and their RTP numbers are comparable to y’all’s.

7 hours ago, trueblade said:

It's not always that simple. The Saints have a much better OLine than the Panthers. You can't get a RTP penalty if you can't even get to the quarterback. The Panthers provide opposing teams with more 'opportunities' to hit the quarterback and draw those flags.

That is true, however that’s on the Carolina front office for failing to assemble a consistently formidable OL for nearly a decade to protect Newton when he was in the pocket.

Most of the damage Newton has absorbed was through designed runs and his refusal to slide. No roughing the passer penalty or offensive line on Earth would prevent him from taking that damage.

However, I do agree that there are headshots he’s received (both in the pocket and out) that should’ve been penalized with the new helmet rules put in place before 2018. We’ve seen the same thing with Kamara, after Deion Jones knocked him out the game with a concussion in 2017, teams have been targeting his head every chance they get, most notably Jaylon Smith who also was able to do the same thing in Dallas in 2018.

[kungfoodude]

3 minutes ago, Iron Saint said:

 

I did more tally work including 2 more teams with mobile QB’s and 2 more with pocket QB’s.

• Panthers: 30
• Saints: 25
• Falcons: 34
• Patriots: 23
• Packers: 25
• Seahawks: 27 (only from 2012 on)

Now these numbers only indicate the team, not necessarily a specific QB as I believe each starting QB on all the above teams have missed games at one time or another since 2011 (and in Wilson’s case wasn’t even in the league until 2012) and I don’t care enough to go back and figure out which games had a RTP call to see which QB was in.

If y’all want to do the QB hit rate, please be my guest.

But just looking at those raw numbers, both the Falcons and the Seahawks have had some comparatively busted offensive lines as y’all have had in Carolina in the same span and their RTP numbers are comparable to y’all’s.

Hit rate isn't that hard to deal with, all that info is readily available from a number of sources. Are all these from 2011 other than the Seahawks?

[Iron Saint]

14 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Hit rate isn't that hard to deal with, all that info is readily available from a number of sources. Are all these from 2011 other than the Seahawks?

I know, I’m just too lazy to go look it up. LOLOL.

And yes, all from 2011 except the Seahawks. However, they had 2 RTP calls in 2011 with Tavaris Jackson/Charlie Whitehurst if you want to have all teams going back to 2011.

[AceBoogie]

21 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

What would you consider the most important factor for gaining entry to that club?

Is it age, success or popularity?

You know what it is lol but we aren’t allowed to have those conversations here.