Let's formally divide into factions on Matt Rhule

[Matt62881]

4 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Yeah, I am not as concerned about his "draw" or his off the field shenanigans because I don't get any of that ticket revenue nor do I give two flat fugs about basically any player's personal lives(for the most part). What I know for certain, is that he is the only franchise QB that the Carolina Panthers have ever had and he's bordering on being the best football player the franchise has ever had(and I say that as an ARDENT Smitty fan). 

This is a QB driven league. Take a look at the playoff teams as an example. Almost all of them have either elite QB's or upper tier journeyman QB's. Without Cam Newton, this whole team is worse. Having the best RB will get you next to nothing. We proved that and the Giants have proved that. You need a very good QB in this league to win consistently. Without Cam, we don't have a good QB. Period. 

Furthermore, if we decide to go down the draft road at #7, the fail rate is very high. And the tangible returns(division titles, playoff berths, Super Bowls) are going to be down the road a bit if you look at the numbers historically. Frankly, if we don't get that QB situation figured out in the next 2-3 years, we probably aren't looking at Matt Rhule coaching us anymore. It's that critical to get that figured out IMO. 

Exactly but it makes him more likely to come back and as far as Cam vs Smitty...sorry no contest, smitty was a warrior say f your double and triple teams still coming down with the ball. There will never be a player that takes smitty's place for me but that's because of my age. 5"9 and angry...185....no ones has ever done that. 

[kungfoodude]

2 minutes ago, Matt62881 said:

Exactly but it makes him more likely to come back and as far as Cam vs Smitty...sorry no contest, smitty was a warrior say f your double and triple teams still coming down with the ball. There will never be a player that takes smitty's place for me but that's because of my age. 5"9 and angry...185....no ones has ever done that. 

I sincerely hope he does come back. I sincerely hope we have an OL that is capable of protecting him. I sincerely hope he can remain healthy. Now we get to see if those hopes become realities.

As for Smitty, he had more heart and passion in him than any player I have ever seen. He was an insane athlete in a small body that played tougher and better than most 6-4 WR's in the NFL. You were just not going to out fight Steve Smith for a ball. I love Steve Smith. He's my favorite Panther of All-Time(unless Cam romps on the league for another 5+ years in Carolina and brings home a title). 

[mc52beast]

As of right now I like the hire. Tepper stepped WAY outside the box and got a guy with very little NFL experience but he wants the same things Tepper wants including moving the team into the 21st century.

Lets have another discussion about this after we see who Rhule hires for his staff.

[Chief Keek]

Can there be two rulers? How will Rick the Ruler feel about this?

 

[Matt62881]

2 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I sincerely hope he does come back. I sincerely hope we have an OL that is capable of protecting him. I sincerely hope he can remain healthy. Now we get to see if those hopes become realities.

As for Smitty, he had more heart and passion in him than any player I have ever seen. He was an insane athlete in a small body that played tougher and better than most 6-4 WR's in the NFL. You were just not going to out fight Steve Smith for a ball. I love Steve Smith. He's my favorite Panther of All-Time(unless Cam romps on the league for another 5+ years in Carolina and brings home a title). 

A title wouldn't even do it for me I would forgo one to have him back on the field...his intensity could be felt and he made me the fan I am today and possibly some of his traits wore off on me. That chip he had....

As for Cam it was a freak lisfranc bro he was ready to come back last year possibly saving Ron here....that arm didn't look bad he just controlled his power better, he had evolved but the foot..probably a 50% tear was enough to not allow him to be able to plant properly but go back and watch him throw a 25 yd out without planting. Him and CMC will be unstoppable and he will never stop running.

[Matt62881]

Our all time team is stacking up with teams that have been around for 50 years we should have a title by now anyway... smitty cam and cmc...all prime would have been unstoppable. With pep, kuechly, gamble and davis...wow just that and I'm not naming everyone.

[kungfoodude]

2 minutes ago, Matt62881 said:

A title wouldn't even do it for me I would forgo one to have him back on the field...his intensity could be felt and he made me the fan I am today and possibly some of his traits wore off on me. That chip he had....

As for Cam it was a freak lisfranc bro he was ready to come back last year possibly saving Ron here....that arm didn't look bad he just controlled his power better, he had evolved but the foot..probably a 50% tear was enough to not allow him to be able to plant properly but go back and watch him throw a 25 yd out without planting. Him and CMC will be unstoppable and he will never stop running.

Whoa now....I ain't giving titles back. I loved Smitty but not that much. 

Cam and his injuries are going to be the story because of the multitude of them  over the past 3 seasons. It's a byproduct of playing the style of physical football that he does. I agree that running is part of his game, you cannot completely remove that and have him be the same kind of player. But he hasn't been able to stay healthy and that is a huge problem when you are facing a contract year and a decision for the franchise on his future here. If he gets injured and misses time again next season(assuming he returns)......I think that you have to move on. I will HATE it and I will not AGREE with it, but I will completely understand it. We cannot have franchise QB money tied up into a guy that can't stay healthy, it's a recipe for disaster. It's a recipe for continuing to see guys like Kyle Allen and Will Grier come in and lose games. 

[CRA]

16 minutes ago, SBiii said:

Curious why you think "we overpaid" and why it matters what the level of pay is?

If money were a scarce resource and paying the new Head Coach a ton of money would somehow be a disadvantage to other parts of the operation I could understand this line of reasoning...

...but, Big Tepp truly has an unlimited amount of money and what the coach gets paid is not relevant in any way.  (at least not that I can figure out)

On a similar note, ever stop to think about how big a number 1-billion is?

If you went back in time 1-billion seconds it would take you back to the year 1988.

If on the calendar you went back 1-second for each of Tepper's $12 billion you would land in the year 1636 when the citizens of the Massachusetts Bay Colony were fighting the Pequot indians for control of what are now parts of Connecticut and Rhode Island.

 

 

Well it doesn’t really matter in the sense it is Tepper’s money and doesn’t effect the cap.  But there is more than that .

But explain the actual rational in making a college coach (without a great college resume based on the standards of others that have made the jump) the 6th highest paid coach in the NFL.  I mean he could be the highest paid.  The only argument is, well whatever it takes to get him is all that matters and nothing matters outside that 

But the huge contract does matter if Rhule ends up being a mistake.  Because it ties us to the mistake for longer than if he had a more reasonable deal.   Because now I think you are essentially arguing Tepper will just burn money just because and nothing matters.   Lot of NFL owners got fug you money.  Tepper isn’t unique there really.  Plus the ego vs mistake issue that always comes into play in scenarios.  

[Matt62881]

1 minute ago, kungfoodude said:

Whoa now....I ain't giving titles back. I loved Smitty but not that much. 

Cam and his injuries are going to be the story because of the multitude of them  over the past 3 seasons. It's a byproduct of playing the style of physical football that he does. I agree that running is part of his game, you cannot completely remove that and have him be the same kind of player. But he hasn't been able to stay healthy and that is a huge problem when you are facing a contract year and a decision for the franchise on his future here. If he gets injured and misses time again next season(assuming he returns)......I think that you have to move on. I will HATE it and I will not AGREE with it, but I will completely understand it. We cannot have franchise QB money tied up into a guy that can't stay healthy, it's a recipe for disaster. It's a recipe for continuing to see guys like Kyle Allen and Will Grier come in and lose games. 

Your right about most of it but still the lisfranc was a freak accident because he was behind backups in a preseason game.  His shoulder was ready...hes almost never been injured running always being nailed in the pocket. We need a C and the oline should go middle to upper middle of the pack.

[top dawg]

There's no Rhule saying I have to pick sides. I used to live in Missouri, the Show-Me state. 

[kungfoodude]

Just now, Matt62881 said:

Your right about most of it but still the lisfranc was a freak accident because he was behind backups in a preseason game.  His shoulder was ready...hes almost never been injured running always being nailed in the pocket. We need a C and the oline should go middle to upper middle of the pack.

I wouldn't disagree about it being a freak injury, it rarely happens even in the NFL. From a front office perspective, however, you have to look at the returns on investment and they are pretty minimal for Cam in the last three seasons. Him missing time and being injured has cost us a LOT of games. It's not a tenable situation for the future. 

I agree his shoulder was ready, though. Perhaps this even more extended time off will give his body a chance to go through some more long term healing that is going to be necessary for 2020. I am a full believer that if we can protect him, we will be a very good team next season by just simply adding him back. 

[TheRed]

I hate that people are now looking for any remote coaching similarities to Rivera and using that as a way to analyze if the next coach will be successful before he's even started.

There was good and bad with Ron. The bad mostly stemmed from his own stubbornness and unwillingness to adapt. That is ultimately what cost him his job. I imagine we had some blunt discussions with Rhule about this in the interview.

[Jon Snow]

2 hours ago, Puresteel55 said:

I am a Rhuler!

However, it does concern me a bit that he gave the Giants an opportunity to match before committing. 
That could mean that we are his 2nd choice (at least) but Tepper made him an offer to good to refuse. Bought him in other words.

So the question is...is he all in for more than himself. Time will tell. Hope he learns to bleed black and blue sooner than later.

He owed them that much since he had discussions with them already.  Its nothing more than that.

[Matt62881]

3 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I wouldn't disagree about it being a freak injury, it rarely happens even in the NFL. From a front office perspective, however, you have to look at the returns on investment and they are pretty minimal for Cam in the last three seasons. Him missing time and being injured has cost us a LOT of games. It's not a tenable situation for the future. 

I agree his shoulder was ready, though. Perhaps this even more extended time off will give his body a chance to go through some more long term healing that is going to be necessary for 2020. I am a full believer that if we can protect him, we will be a very good team next season by just simply adding him back. 

Exactly