Marty's enormous BRAIN

[LinvilleGorge]

18 minutes ago, TheCasillas said:

That's gonna fall on your coaching staff for not being able to get the best out of a player or keep him in line. 

You can't coach want to and effort.

[panthers55]

3 hours ago, mc52beast said:

Pretty sure the GM in most cases has a lot of input as to who does or doesn’t get picked. 

Obviously it depends on the front office and how it is structured. I am pretty sure Marty is considered a lot more collaborative than Gettleman was and that Hurney solicits input and  group decisions.

[Happy Panther]

5 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

There is no way to prove anything, but it is interesting.  You mention Beason.  Great pick, right?  However, was it?  Yes, Beason had a great career and was a good MLB.  If we analyze that draft, Hurney traded down, giving the pick to the Jets. The Jets took Revis Island.

You can do this with almost any pick. Unless you get the best player in the draft then there was a missed opportunity. "Yes, Beason had a great career and was a good MLB" should be enough to validate the pick.

[MHS831]

Once in a while, a simple thank you for stirring the pot in February would go a long way. 

You're welcome, Huddle.

[panthers55]

3 hours ago, MHS831 said:

The GM makes the call. He gets input from coaches (something he didn't have in 2010 and that did not go well) and the scouts.  To say that the GM should not be held accountable--when the decision is made on his watch--is not a fair defense.  He above all others, gets credit and blame--I credited his first round picks. 

I also think what you describe will be closer to the actual situation this year--but that is speculation.  I think he was given a ton of freedom under JR---

What happens behind closed doors from team to team probably varies a lot.

The buck always stops with the GM. But the question is whether that is fair or not. I suspect that GMs get too much credit when things go well and too much blame when they go wrong. Much like the president and the economy for example. Hurney has always been known as a collaborator and inclusive kind of GM. At least part of the reason he is still here.

[MHS831]

7 minutes ago, Happy Panther said:

Yes, Beason had a great career and was a good MLB" should be enough to validate the pick.

I disagree.  If you pass on a first ballot Hall of Fame shut down CB (very rare) and take a very solid all pro linebacker (easier to find)--that alone does not make the pick a good one---however, this is to prove not that the pick was good, it was to demonstrate a pattern of thought--that marty takes safe picks and avoids certain positions.  After Gamble, Richard Marshall was the best CB Marty picked in his career.  Name a top WR he selected.  What about DTs?   How many good LBs and RBs has he picked?  Is a GM evaluated on his ability to build a team or a position?

[MHS831]

3 hours ago, thefuzz said:

Nah, if you are the GM, and the name is called on your watch, it is your call.

That way I don't have to do mental gymnastics to figure out who to blame and when.

If it is not your call, you are GM in title only.  

[thefuzz]

4 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

I disagree.  If you pass on a first ballot Hall of Fame shut down CB (very rare) and take a very solid all pro linebacker (easier to find)--that alone does not make the pick a good one---however, this is to prove not that the pick was good, it was to demonstrate a pattern of thought--that marty takes safe picks and avoids certain positions.  After Gamble, Richard Marshall was the best CB Marty picked in his career.  Name a top WR he selected.  What about DTs?   How many good LBs and RBs has he picked?  Is a GM evaluated on his ability to build a team or a position?

People like names, they like to say Luuuuuuuuuuuuke during games, seemingly to some in this fanbase that's more important than winning.

Fans of this team still pounce on DG for cutting Smith, and letting Norman walk....although both were for the betterment of this team long term.  Hell, I had a fan I respect a lot tell me that she didn't care if Olsen and TD could play or not, and didn't care how much they cost, she wanted them here long term no matter what.

It's a very strange thing.

That said, we overrate the hell out of Beason's career, he was off to a stunning start, then injuries derailed him.  Great player while healthy, but his greatness was somewhat short lived unfortunately.

[panthers55]

5 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

I disagree.  If you pass on a first ballot Hall of Fame shut down CB (very rare) and take a very solid all pro linebacker (easier to find)--that alone does not make the pick a good one---however, this is to prove not that the pick was good, it was to demonstrate a pattern of thought--that marty takes safe picks and avoids certain positions.  After Gamble, Richard Marshall was the best CB Marty picked in his career.  Name a top WR he selected.  What about DTs?   How many good LBs and RBs has he picked?  Is a GM evaluated on his ability to build a team or a position?

If Revis had been drafted to us would it have been a good pick given we ran zone most of the time we are talking about and Revis was best in man coverage and actually struggled in zone. The picks have to match the system. I wouldn't use him as a comparison given his man skills could have been wasted in our system.

[Car123]

1 minute ago, panthers55 said:

If Revis had been drafted to us would it have been a good pick given we ran zone most of the time we are talking about and Revis was best in man coverage and actually struggled in zone. The picks have to match the system. I wouldn't use him as a comparison given his man skills could have been wasted in our system.

Op is what people call a smart dumb poster.

[panther4life]

17 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

I disagree.  If you pass on a first ballot Hall of Fame shut down CB (very rare) and take a very solid all pro linebacker (easier to find)--that alone does not make the pick a good one---however, this is to prove not that the pick was good, it was to demonstrate a pattern of thought--that marty takes safe picks and avoids certain positions.  After Gamble, Richard Marshall was the best CB Marty picked in his career.  Name a top WR he selected.  What about DTs?   How many good LBs and RBs has he picked?  Is a GM evaluated on his ability to build a team or a position?

What your missing is, not only did we get Beason out of it. He also nailed the 3rd rounder he acquired to pick up Kalil. 
 

Another thing you’ve missed in this entire thread is context. For several of the seasons, you pick positions he passed on. Well did you forget or not start watching the panthers to know we already had Chris Gamble and Ken Lucas starting at corner the year we passed on Revis to select Beason and Kalil?

 

[LinvilleGorge]

I think Beason is being undersold here. He wasn't a "very solid MLB". He was basically Bobby Wagner. A great player who just had the misfortune of playing at the same time of a slightly greater player at his position. Wagner had Luke, Beason had Patrick Willis.

[Billy Love]

30 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

That is quite a cranium. Hoping the sarcasm of the thread title was not lost on anyone.  I laughed lunch out of my nose when I read your opening line, and I did not have lunch today.

People are praising him for the first round picks--he picks safely--see my Beason example.  Why trading down and getting Beason and Ryan Kalil may not have been a great move.

I read the sarcasm loud and clear. I’m just playing along with factual humor.

[frash.exe]

10 minutes ago, thefuzz said:

People like names, they like to say Luuuuuuuuuuuuke during games, seemingly to some in this fanbase that's more important than winning.

Fans of this team still pounce on DG for cutting Smith, and letting Norman walk....although both were for the betterment of this team long term.  Hell, I had a fan I respect a lot tell me that she didn't care if Olsen and TD could play or not, and didn't care how much they cost, she wanted them here long term no matter what.

It's a very strange thing.

That said, we overrate the hell out of Beason's career, he was off to a stunning start, then injuries derailed him.  Great player while healthy, but his greatness was somewhat short lived unfortunately.

apparently we had to make sure that kalil, davis, and olsen were kept bc they needed to retire on their own terms so they can retire as panthers. ppl were unhappy with the way players were departing and i’m sure jerry richardson wasn’t a fan of the offseason evaluation process that gettleman implemented.

3 years later, davis is a charger, kalil retired and then subsequently unretired and signed with the jets, and olsen left on not-so-agreeable terms.

was this all worth downgrading to a bottom-of-the-barrel GM?