Panthers owner to PSL owners: Success “won’t happen overnight”

[ellis]

2 minutes ago, RoaringRiot said:

What would you be calling me out about? I haven’t endorsed tanking. Just pointing out that understanding their intentions are hard unless you just don’t want to believe it

No, I was just providing clarity on the “calling out” comment. Lot of bullets flying around here lol. 

[Mr. Scot]

4 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Yeah, and who is doing our picking? 

I rest my case, Mr. Scot. We aren't the Packers or the Steelers and right now that isn't what Tepper is building. He's building the Browns/Jags/Cardinals/Raiders. You want to see another 10+ years of Marty Hurney? How did that work out last time?

See above.

I agree completely with the approach, but even teams that have the right approach also need the right execution.

Building through the draft, for example, is the correct strategy for long term success. But it makes a huge difference whether your draft is run by Kevin Colbert or Marty Hurney.

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, Tbe said:

Read this...https://theathletic.com/1593799/2020/02/10/ten-years-after-a-tank-job-for-the-ages-the-panthers-are-likely-in-for-some-rebuilding-pains-again-in-2020/

 

They went into that year $26 mil under the cap. They cut a lot of vets and had the youngest roster in the league that year. 
 

Another quote from a player:

“I remember that year vividly because Foxy was on the way out, and he let us know he was on the way out,” Schwartz said. “We knew kind of what the goal of the season was as soon as they were pushing Jimmy Clausen on us.”

Will Grier = Pickles 2.0?

[ellis]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

My biggest concern right now is the Tepper believes in himself more than he should.

I've said it before: Few people have the potential to do as much damage as somebody who isn't really that smart, but in his mind, absolutely knows he is.

We shall see. He is, w/o question, intimately involved in the process. There’s no Kevin Colbert/Nick Caserio on hand to instill a certain level of consumer confidence. 

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, ellis said:

We shall see. He is, w/o question, intimately involved in the process. There’s no Kevin Colbert/Nick Caserio on hand to instill a certain level of consumer confidence. 

I've seen the theory that Tepper is ultimately going to run it himself with Marty as his figurehead / fall guy.

That's an awful scenario.

[ellis]

Just now, Mr. Scot said:

I've seen the theory that Tepper is ultimately going to run it himself with Marty as his figurehead / fall guy.

That's an awful scenario.

It’s certainly not how I imagined the structure would look, say, six months ago. 

[WOW!!]

4 minutes ago, Tbe said:

Read this...https://theathletic.com/1593799/2020/02/10/ten-years-after-a-tank-job-for-the-ages-the-panthers-are-likely-in-for-some-rebuilding-pains-again-in-2020/

 

They went into that year $26 mil under the cap. They cut a lot of vets and had the youngest roster in the league that year. 
 

Another quote from a player:

“I remember that year vividly because Foxy was on the way out, and he let us know he was on the way out,” Schwartz said. “We knew kind of what the goal of the season was as soon as they were pushing Jimmy Clausen on us.”

Jimmy wasn't supposed to start Matt Moore was.. So this whole article is stupid..

Again look at the roster.. The roster wasn't a tanking roster.. They had major injuries and the QB situation was a complete bust.. Fox being in a Lame duck season wasn't a tank admission.. 

Rivera and dude from Atlanta were going into a contract year and both teams had expectations to win..

[ellis]

Just now, WOW!! said:

Jimmy wasn't supposed to start Matt Moore was.. So this whole article is stupid..

Again look at the roster.. The roster wasn't a tanking roster.. They had major injuries and the QB situation was a complete bust.. Fox being in a Lame duck season wasn't a tank admission.. 

Rivera and dude from Atlanta were going into a contract year and both teams had expectations to win..

Moore did get hurt. Concussion, week one. Started week 2 vs Tampa, and the entire offense was dreadful. Jimmy came in late, had a nice drive, but it stalled out. The rest was history.

[Mr. Scot]

5 minutes ago, ellis said:

It’s certainly not how I imagined the structure would look, say, six months ago. 

There are two potential pitfalls in our future that absolutely make me cringe.

The Jim Haslam Scenario: Tepper having complete  confidence in himself when he really shouldn't

The Jerry Richardson Scenario: Tepper putting his faith and trust in the wrong people

I'm not sure which of those scares me more.

And yes, it's possible that both could happen because the second scenario logically flows out of the first.

[Tbe]

5 minutes ago, WOW!! said:

Jimmy wasn't supposed to start Matt Moore was.. So this whole article is stupid..

Again look at the roster.. The roster wasn't a tanking roster.. They had major injuries and the QB situation was a complete bust.. Fox being in a Lame duck season wasn't a tank admission.. 

Rivera and dude from Atlanta were going into a contract year and both teams had expectations to win..

“For starters, former Panthers offensive lineman Geoff Schwartz said the language has changed over the past decade.

“Back then when that happened, it wasn’t referred to as tanking. It just was, OK, we’ll have to try to win with worse players,” Schwartz said. “Now, it feels like the term, tanking, is universal. Rebuild, tank, whatever you want to say. … This year feels like a rebuild. It felt like we were tanking in 2010.”

Several of Schwartz’s teammates from that 2-14 team said the same thing, including one who pointed out that if 2010 was a roster reboot, this year feels like more of an organizationwide rebuild for the Panthers.”

 

[Mr. Scot]

Pretty sure Schwartz also said in that article that a lot of the players felt like Jimmy Clausen was being "forced on them".

[Daywa1ker]

Hoo boy.

At least Clemson will still be fun to watch, so football season won't be 100% depression and failure

[Panther'sBigD]

25 minutes ago, mjligon said:

Sure. Since Tepper has been here for 2 years now, those two should count against him as losing records.

Baltimore Ravens after going 5-11 went 8-8 in their 2nd season, winning records ever since. 

2015	2015	NFL	AFC	North	3rd	5	11	0
2016	2016	NFL	AFC	North	2nd	8	8	0
2017	2017	NFL	AFC	North	2nd	9	7	0
2018	2018	NFL	AFC	North	1st	10	6	0	Lost Wild Card Playoffs (Chargers) 23–17
2019	2019	NFL	AFC	North	1st	14	2	0

Example 2:

Seattle Seahawks

Playoffs during the first year of Peter Caroll and have been absolutely dominant ever since. We're already behind them in terms of 'turnaround'. And, barring some miracle have virtually no chance (or intention of it by the way Tepper keeps talking) of making the playoffs this year.

2009	2009	NFL	NFC	West	3rd	5	11	0	.313			Jim L. Mora
2010	2010	NFL	NFC	West	1st	7	9	0	.438	Won Wild Card playoffs (Saints) 41–36 Lost Divisional playoffs (at Bears) 35–24		Pete Carroll
2011	2011	NFL	NFC	West	3rd	7	9	0	.438
2012	2012	NFL	NFC	West	2nd	11	5	0	.688	Won Wild Card playoffs (at Redskins) 24–14 Lost Divisional playoffs (at Falcons) 30–28
2013	2013	NFL	NFC	West	1st	13	3	0	.813	Won Divisional playoffs (Saints) 23–15 Won NFC Championship (49ers) 23–17 Won Super Bowl XLVIII (1) (vs. Broncos) 43–8	Malcolm Smith (SB MVP)
2014	2014	NFL	NFC	West	1st	12	4	0	.750	Won Divisional playoffs (Panthers) 31–17 Won NFC Championship (Packers) 28–22 (OT) Lost Super Bowl XLIX (vs. Patriots) 24–28
2015	2015	NFL	NFC	West	2nd	10	6	0	.625	Won Wild Card playoffs (at Vikings) 10–9 Lost Divisional playoffs (at Panthers) 31–24
2016	2016	NFL	NFC	West	1st	10	5	1	.656	Won Wild Card playoffs (Lions) 26–6 Lost Divisional playoffs (at Falcons) 36–20
2017	2017	NFL	NFC	West	2nd	9	7	0	.563
2018	2018	NFL	NFC	West	2nd	10	6	0	.625	Lost Wild Card playoffs (at Cowboys) 24–22
2019	2019	NFL	NFC	West	2nd	11	5	0	.688	Won Wild Card playoffs (at Eagles) 17–9 Lost Divisional playoffs (at Packers) 28–23

Example 3 for good measure:

LA Rams

2016	2016	NFL	NFC	West	3rd	4	12	0			Jeff Fisher (4–9) John Fassel (0–3)
2017	2017	NFL	NFC	West	1st	11	5	0	Lost Wild Card playoffs (Falcons) 26–13	Sean McVay (COY) Aaron Donald (DPOY) Todd Gurley (OPOY)	Sean McVay
2018	2018	NFL	NFC	West	1st	13	3	0	Won Divisional playoffs (Cowboys) 30–22 Won NFC Championship (at Saints) 26–23 (OT) Lost Super Bowl LIII (vs. Patriots) 13–3	Aaron Donald (DPOY)
2019	2019	NFL	NFC	West	3rd	9	7	0

immediate turnaround under a new regime. I'm sure their owner wasn't running his mouth screaming "patience!! patience!!" either. Winning seasons every year after, even in a down year this past season.

Example 4 - hell even the Titans turned it around on a dime under a new regime, posting 4 straight winning seasons.

2015	2015	NFL	AFC	South	4th	3	13	0			Ken Whisenhunt (1–6) Mike Mularkey (2–7)
2016	2016	NFL	AFC	South	2nd	9	7	0			Mike Mularkey
2017	2017	NFL	AFC	South	2nd#	9	7	0	Won Wild Card playoffs (at Chiefs) 22–21 Lost Divisional playoffs (at Patriots) 35–14
2018	2018	NFL	AFC	South	3rd	9	7	0			Mike Vrabel
2019	2019	NFL	AFC	South	2nd#	9	7	0	Won Wild Card playoffs (at Patriots) 20–13 Won Divisional playoffs (at Ravens) 28–12 Lost AFC Championship (at Chiefs) 35–24

 

..

..

..

Do I need to continue?

boy, the Cheifs sure wasted a lot of time becoming competitive once Andy Reid took over!

2012	2012	NFL	AFC	West	4th	2	14	0			Romeo Crennel
2013	2013	NFL	AFC	West	2nd#	11	5	0	Lost Wild Card Playoffs (at Colts) 45–44		Andy Reid
2014	2014	NFL	AFC	West	2nd	9	7	0
2015	2015	NFL	AFC	West	2nd#	11	5	0	Won Wild Card Playoffs (at Texans) 30–0 Lost Divisional Playoffs (at Patriots) 27–20	Marcus Peters (DROY) Eric Berry (CPOY)
2016	2016	NFL	AFC	West^	1st^	12	4	0	Lost Divisional Playoffs (Steelers) 18–16
2017	2017	NFL	AFC	West^	1st^	10	6	0	Lost Wild Card Playoffs (Titans) 22–21
2018	2018	NFL	AFC	West^	1st^	12	4	0	Won Divisional Playoffs (Colts) 31–13 Lost AFC Championship (Patriots) 37–31 (OT)	Patrick Mahomes (MVP, OPOY)
2019	2019	NFL†	AFC*	West^	1st^	12	4	0	Won Divisional Playoffs (Texans) 51–31 Won AFC Championship (Titans) 35–24 Won Super Bowl LIV (3) (vs. 49ers) 31–20	Patrick Mahomes (Super Bowl LIV MVP)

 

 

 

get bent 

I hope for your sake that you're a teenager and not a grown man, because your daily temper tantrums on these boards are funny, but pathetic. 

The Ravens have had the same owner and coach since 2008 when Harbaugh was hired. Panthers have a new owner AND a new coach. I actually appreciate the way he gave Rivera a shot to keep his job. Once it was clear he wasn't going to cut it, Tepper made his move. Now we're back in year zero, whether your feelings can handle it or not. 

The Seahawks had one down year with Holmgren, he retired and was replaced by Mora, then they got lucky with Carroll, who took over a decent team in one of the worst divisions in the NFC during that time. 

The Rams traded away their future for two good years, and now they're on their way back down. LOL. 

The Titans have had four straight 9-7 seasons. If that's the type of sustained success you're looking for, maybe you should go follow the Redskins. 

The Chiefs - You got me. If you can clone Andy Reid, and give us the draft picks and salary cap he inherited from years of suckage prior to his signing, I'll concede defeat. 

 

[ellis]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

Pretty sure Schwartz also said in that article that a lot of the players felt like Jimmy Clausen was being "forced on them".

Yea, that was never going to be a fun year. The idea, for some time, was Harbaugh/Luck would come in as a package deal—quite the consolation prize for a horrible 17 week ride. Luck stayed, Harbs went to SFO, JR hired Ron. 
 

Cam wasn’t a slam dunk, either. Dareus was given consideration for a time. Nick Fairley, too. Even Blaine Gabbert. But they did like Cam more than the media portrayed it.