KK Short

[Drk89Wng]

@MMA you got issues bro, there’s no meds for helping your aspergers but accepting might help a little. Talk football in a more mature sensible manner and stop being such a pessimistic know it all. fuging weirdo. 

[jfra78]

4 hours ago, stbugs said:

$13M reasons to cut him. He had a mediocre 2018 and missed 2019. Do you think he'll be better than the 3 sacks in 2018?

We aren't making the playoffs no matter how good the draft was. The rookies aren't making a huge impact with no off-season and we still have a lot of holes. Spending an extra $13M to have Short on the team this year is a waste IMHO. Just like some of the guys we got rid of already weren't guys who fit the rebuild. Short is 100% in the don't fit a rebuild, so what's the point?

Also, no idea where the $10M savings number came from. His salary/roster bonus for 2020 is $13M. It's $14.5M in 2021. There is $17M in dead cap in 2020 and 2021, regardless if he's on the team or not. The only question is does he account for $17M in cap space this year and next or $30M.

So if he has 40 tackles, 10 TFL, and 5.5 sacks this season you still cut him?

[jfra78]

5 hours ago, onmyown said:

I posted a while ago that KK, since his contract has played better than only 1 out of 10 DTs getting paid in the realm of his the average of his contract. He was close to another so we can say 2. If we just erase Donald (the anomaly highest paid and biggest production) and pretend he doesn’t exist we can say 3.

So being very generous, he’s better than 30% of other DTs making what he makes.

76% of all percentages are made up, so are yours

[ncfan]

6 hours ago, stbugs said:

$13M reasons to cut him. He had a mediocre 2018 and missed 2019. Do you think he'll be better than the 3 sacks in 2018?

We aren't making the playoffs no matter how good the draft was. The rookies aren't making a huge impact with no off-season and we still have a lot of holes. Spending an extra $13M to have Short on the team this year is a waste IMHO. Just like some of the guys we got rid of already weren't guys who fit the rebuild. Short is 100% in the don't fit a rebuild, so what's the point?

Also, no idea where the $10M savings number came from. His salary/roster bonus for 2020 is $13M. It's $14.5M in 2021. There is $17M in dead cap in 2020 and 2021, regardless if he's on the team or not. The only question is does he account for $17M in cap space this year and next or $30M.

He had A mediocre season in 2018.

1 year.

 

Also that 1 bad season.. He spent the entire season on the injury report even missing 2 games.

So yeah, if he comes back healthy, he11 yeah I think he'll be better.

 

Would a healthy Cam be better than a Cam playing on a Bad ankle?

And yes, we aren't competing this year Or next.  So we're not chasing any high priced FA. 

He has only this season and next left on his deal regulardless.  Let's see what he can do being health for the first time since 2017 (when he was one of the top DTs in the league.

He sucks this year.  Cut him next offseason.  But let's see what the man can do this year.  If he looks alright, you can actually extend him a year or 2 and lower the yearly amount.  We've done this with guys like Addison before.

 

Good thing some of you guys are not GMs or TD wouldve been ran out after his 2nd ACL tear, Luke after his 2nd season of concussion problems, etc etc.

[Jon Snow]

9 hours ago, pantherclaw said:

Let him play this season, and extend him accordingly.  

I'm not in favor of any more extensions for KK.  That's how we got in this mess to begin with.  No kicking the bedpan down the road.

[stbugs]

38 minutes ago, ncfan said:

He had A mediocre season in 2018.

1 year.

 

Also that 1 bad season.. He spent the entire season on the injury report even missing 2 games.

So yeah, if he comes back healthy, he11 yeah I think he'll be better.

 

Would a healthy Cam be better than a Cam playing on a Bad ankle?

And yes, we aren't competing this year Or next.  So we're not chasing any high priced FA. 

He has only this season and next left on his deal regulardless.  Let's see what he can do being health for the first time since 2017 (when he was one of the top DTs in the league.

He sucks this year.  Cut him next offseason.  But let's see what the man can do this year.  If he looks alright, you can actually extend him a year or 2 and lower the yearly amount.  We've done this with guys like Addison before.

 

Good thing some of you guys are not GMs or TD wouldve been ran out after his 2nd ACL tear, Luke after his 2nd season of concussion problems, etc etc.

Why see what he can do? You just said we can’t compete this year. At $13 and $14.5M, he’s got to be playing at a top 10 level. He’s not close. I love all the injury excuses. When you hit 30 and you are injured multiple seasons, that’s not a good sign.

OK, we might as well throw close to a $100M away on bridge QBs and injured/31 year old DTs. I’d rather not be able to sign a few too FAs like KC did this past year with Matthieu and Clark and go for broke. I’d rather spend a ton of cap when everyone knows we aren’t going to be competing.

You can try and tug the heart strings with the TD and Luke examples, but they don’t matter. We are discussing Short. What about Olsen? Do you think his extension and extra money was worth 30 receptions a year? Delhomme? Johnson? We have a ridiculous amount of examples where we held on too long. Luke is not a good example as well. He played the entire rest of the season after his first and then he missed the end of 2016. We had plenty of time before 2017 to evaluate him and he played 3 more full years. 2017 Luke was equivalent to 2019 Short and unlike Short, Luke showed he was back to normal.

Hey, obviously we aren’t dumping him so we’ll see if he’s worth the top 10 pay.

[stbugs]

2 hours ago, jfra78 said:

So if he has 40 tackles, 10 TFL, and 5.5 sacks this season you still cut him?

Well, we’ll see but his number is even worse next year. Since he’s got 3 sacks the past two years, I’d bet the under. 

[ncfan]

4 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Why see what he can do? You just said we can’t compete this year. At $13 and $14.5M, he’s got to be playing at a top 10 level. He’s not close. I love all the injury excuses. When you hit 30 and you are injured multiple seasons, that’s not a good sign.

OK, we might as well throw close to a $100M away on bridge QBs and injured/31 year old DTs. I’d rather not be able to sign a few too FAs like KC did this past year with Matthieu and Clark and go for broke. I’d rather spend a ton of cap when everyone knows we aren’t going to be competing.

You can try and tug the heart strings with the TD and Luke examples, but they don’t matter. We are discussing Short. What about Olsen? Do you think his extension and extra money was worth 30 receptions a year? Delhomme? Johnson? We have a ridiculous amount of examples where we held on too long. Luke is not a good example as well. He played the entire rest of the season after his first and then he missed the end of 2016. We had plenty of time before 2017 to evaluate him and he played 3 more full years. 2017 Luke was equivalent to 2019 Short and unlike Short, Luke showed he was back to normal.

Hey, obviously we aren’t dumping him so we’ll see if he’s worth the top 10 pay.

Ae aren't competing this year.

The "money we will save" isnt going to be used to compete.  

We aren't winning this year.  We may as well see what the guy can do being healthy for the 1st time since 2017.

Then after next year lets make that decision. 

 

He dosnt play well,   cut him

He does, you can either trade him or extend him a year or 2 Mario Addison style lowering that last year on his deal.

 

Saving money this year isnt going to impact this team the next 5 years.  But seeing what your once Stud DT has being healthfor the first time in a while is more important.

[stbugs]

6 minutes ago, ncfan said:

Ae aren't competing this year.

The "money we will save" isnt going to be used to compete.  

We aren't winning this year.  We may as well see what the guy can do being healthy for the 1st time since 2017.

Then after next year lets make that decision. 

 

He dosnt play well,   cut him

He does, you can either trade him or extend him a year or 2 Mario Addison style lowering that last year on his deal.

 

Saving money this year isnt going to impact this team the next 5 years.  But seeing what your once Stud DT has being healthfor the first time in a while is more important.

Saving money rolls over so it absolutely could impact the next 5 years. Teddy, Anderson and Short are a combined $90M in cap space this year and next. That’s Aaron Donald for 4 years. With rollover, we could afford to sign an Aaron Donald for 2022-2025. Let’s not be naive and try to say that will rollover we can’t use money we save this year on future years. I’d rather have Matthieu and Clark for our SB run during the rebuild than spend it on not top guys during the two years we are prepping for the run. I just don’t see how hard it is. I’ll just give up because the team is trying to compete and rebuild all in one. I’d rather save the money and get Aaron Donald and more.

[Jared Patterson]

So how much money do we save after KK is cut next year?

[jfra78]

9 minutes ago, Jared Patterson said:

So how much money do we save after KK is cut next year?

 

[musicman]

I really think missed in all this was; what do we save? It's not worth the savings and cap hits for this year or next year to cut him and have that dead money. His production should be close to or worth the $14 mil a year as average players are getting $8 mil a year and up. What do you rate Vernon Butler in with all the DTs in the league, maybe bottom 20%. He's getting $8 mil a year. KK is in the top 20%. It's not worth the savings and he can still be competitive and help all our young D-lineman over the next 2 years. He's the only real Vet on the line. Good lineman play into their mid 30's and he just turned 31. 

[hepcat]

Oh yea, they will be cutting Short next offseason, no question about it. Unless he plays like he did when he was 25 again somehow and racks up 10+ sacks. It's more likely that I get a date with ScarJo than that happens tho.

 

[jfra78]

14 minutes ago, hepcat said:

Oh yea, they will be cutting Short next offseason, no question about it. Unless he plays like he did when he was 25 again somehow and racks up 10+ sacks. It's more likely that I get a date with ScarJo than that happens tho.

 

Only 1 DT had over 10 sacks last year and only 4 had over 6.  If he gets 5 or more he will be safe