"It's time to start giving Teddy Bridgewater the respect he deserves"

[raleigh-panther]

4 hours ago, SizzleBuzz said:

What will you need to see in this stretch in order to exit the anti-Teddy camp?

I am not anti Teddy.  I just don’t see him as a franchise QB.  that is not an indictment, I feel it’s just factual  Mahomes is a franchise QB   Aaron Rodgers is a franchise QB. Teddy isn’t that level , could he be, dont know   Does it matter, time will tell.

To me, is an average Nfl level QB and that is not a crime and that is far and away better than those who backed up Newton 

is that good enough against some of the upper tier teams who have one, I don’t know   No one does.  

How will he do when teams have recent film of his and Brady’s tendencies...how will he do against heavy pressure teams and heavy pressure situations ...how will he do when he has to come from two scores down in the 4th,  the answer is, we don’t know yet  

 

[jfra78]

4 hours ago, Mother Grabber said:

holy poo, Wilson has 19 TDs in 5 games. that's redonkulous.

Have a feeling it's a MVP year for him

[Byrdman4real]

22 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

To be fair, it wouldn't be terribly difficult to be better than what you expected 

I'm still not ready to anoint Bridgewater as a franchise quarterback, but it's pretty clear that he functions well within Joe Brady's system.

If we want that to continue, we really are going to want to do everything we can to retain Brady.

 

This

[Icege]

5 hours ago, KSpan said:

The hyperbole and strawmen in this post are amazing. Such comments continue to ignore that this general position (and my own personal comments since Day 1) understands that for a guy with Teddy's current body (emphasis on current) of work to win a Super Bowl, an elite defense will be required; Dilfer had this. Flacco did as well, though he also had an amazing individual playoff run the likes of which Teddy has yet to out on tape. Cam (who I personally have never mentioned, but do consider a game-changer) made it to the Super Bowl with Ted Ginn, Jerricho Cotchery, and Philly Brown and continually carried lower-tier gameplans and players to competent offensive performances.

This Carolina team does not YET appear to have an elite-level defense and Teddy has not YET shown that he can beat top-tier competition in this offense or elevate lower-tier offensive players; that does not mean he CAN NEVER, it just means it hasn't happened yet. He is doing very well in a promising system with arguably the best set of skill players Carolina has ever had, certainly since prime Smitty/Moose/Proehl. After 5 games things are pointing up and it's very possible he proves that he is more than Alex Smith. Alex Smith is a high-quality player that won a lot of games in good systems with good players around him, just like Teddy to date, but Alex Smith's body of work does not include beating the best when it comes to the playoffs and top-tier competition.

Can Teddy elevate past that? Very possible, and if so it opens Carolina's window that much wider.

It's that simple and straightforward. It really is. No disrespect or 'hating', no strawmen, no moving goalposts involved. Teddy and the team can only play the schedule as written and the opportunities are coming. Evidenced-based opinions don't seem to be en vogue at the moment but it is not unreasonable to only still be cautiously optimistic about Teddy, the new staff, and/or the team as a whole after a mere 5 weeks against what appears today to be largely middle-tier-or-lower competition. To say otherwise is disingenuous.

I'm trying to understand how folks can sit here clutching their pearls over their position being misrepresented when in the very next few sentences they do stuff like bring up defense as a disqualifying factor for Teddy but then ignore that Cam had an elite defense in 2015. His OL this season is also nowhere near as talented as the offensive line Cam had in 2015, but yes, Teddy does have better better weapons overall (CMC, Anderson, Moore > Olsen, Stewart, Ginn Jr). 

I keep seeing that "body of work" phrase thrown around, but what body of work? He has played in two full seasons as a healthy starter. It wasn't like he was a back-up because he was just an adequate game manager (which is what we all hope back-ups are at the very least), the man almost lost his leg in a freak accident. He didn't start another game until December 2018 when NO sat all of their starters. Are we holding that he couldn't elevate the second string to a "meaningless" win? The same people that chalk up his success to that of Brady + skill position players will then turn around and whine about him having an average pass below 5yds in the NO offense that has Brees doing the same exact thing. I just don't get this desperate need to have things proven yet at every twist and turn there are nothing but attempts to invalidate the proof.

If we want to talk about evidence based opinions, there are more than enough posts refuting some of the consistently bad takes (ie: Teddy's deep passing capabilities, contract, etc) that continue to be harped on despite being debunked. Otherwise, let's not be disingenuous by claiming to be cautiously optimistic either. Claiming to be a "Teddy agnostic" that is "cautiously optimistic" when the best you can say about him is that he's a "poor man's Alex Smith that might be a little better" is pretty out there. Just say that you don't believe in him and leave it at that.

[KSpan]

11 minutes ago, Icege said:

I'm trying to understand how folks can sit here clutching their pearls over their position being misrepresented when in the very next few sentences they do stuff like bring up defense as a disqualifying factor for Teddy but then ignore that Cam had an elite defense in 2015. His OL this season is also nowhere near as talented as the offensive line Cam had in 2015, but yes, Teddy does have better better weapons overall (CMC, Anderson, Moore > Olsen, Stewart, Ginn Jr). 

I keep seeing that "body of work" phrase thrown around, but what body of work? He has played in two full seasons as a healthy starter. It wasn't like he was a back-up because he was just an adequate game manager (which is what we all hope back-ups are at the very least), the man almost lost his leg in a freak accident. He didn't start another game until December 2018 when NO sat all of their starters. Are we holding that he couldn't elevate the second string to a "meaningless" win? The same people that chalk up his success to that of Brady + skill position players will then turn around and whine about him having an average pass below 5yds in the NO offense that has Brees doing the same exact thing. I just don't get this desperate need to have things proven yet at every twist and turn there are nothing but attempts to invalidate the proof.

If we want to talk about evidence based opinions, there are more than enough posts refuting some of the consistently bad takes (ie: Teddy's deep passing capabilities, contract, etc) that continue to be harped on despite being debunked. Otherwise, let's not be disingenuous by claiming to be cautiously optimistic either. Claiming to be a "Teddy agnostic" that is "cautiously optimistic" when the best you can say about him is that he's a "poor man's Alex Smith that might be a little better" is pretty out there. Just say that you don't believe in him and leave it at that.

Holy crap, it's like Groundhog Day in here. Where did I 'disqualify Teddy'? Did you even read what I wrote? Let me quote myself for you:

After 5 games things are pointing up and it's very possible he proves that he is more than Alex Smith. Alex Smith is a high-quality player that won a lot of games in good systems with good players around him, just like Teddy to date, but Alex Smith's body of work does not include beating the best when it comes to the playoffs and top-tier competition.

Can Teddy elevate past that? Very possible, and if so it opens Carolina's window that much wider.

Where the hell did I 'disqualify Teddy' in there? The actual written words say I called him a high-quality player and said it's very possible he does more. I said it twice in fact. Amazing.

[SizzleBuzz]

35 minutes ago, raleigh-panther said:

I am not anti Teddy.  I just don’t see him as a franchise QB. 

So I will rephrase, what will you need to see over the coming stretch  that will indicate to you he’s an above average NFL QB?

[Byrdman4real]

42 minutes ago, raleigh-panther said:

I am not anti Teddy.  I just don’t see him as a franchise QB.  that is not an indictment, I feel it’s just factual  Mahomes is a franchise QB   Aaron Rodgers is a franchise QB. Teddy isn’t that level , could he be, dont know   Does it matter, time will tell.

To me, is an average Nfl level QB and that is not a crime and that is far and away better than those who backed up Newton 

is that good enough against some of the upper tier teams who have one, I don’t know   No one does.  

How will he do when teams have recent film of his and Brady’s tendencies...how will he do against heavy pressure teams and heavy pressure situations ...how will he do when he has to come from two scores down in the 4th,  the answer is, we don’t know yet  

 

In time you will have your answers

[raleigh-panther]

1 hour ago, SizzleBuzz said:

So I will rephrase, what will you need to see over the coming stretch  that will indicate to you he’s an above average NFL

not sure what you mean by ‘coming stretch’    If you mean the next five games,  not enough.

i have not seen enough of him in the NFL as a 16 game starter to say he is more than an average nfl QB. Again, that’s not a horrible thing.  

Complete the season, then we will all know who and what the Panthers really have in Teddy, the good and the not so good.

clearly, giving a QB, $63 million, the Panthers feel otherwise anyway.

[Pantherxtreme]

7 hours ago, KSpan said:

The hyperbole and strawmen in this post are amazing. Such comments continue to ignore that this general position (and my own personal comments since Day 1) understands that for a guy with Teddy's current body (emphasis on current) of work to win a Super Bowl, an elite defense will be required; Dilfer had this. Flacco did as well, though he also had an amazing individual playoff run the likes of which Teddy has yet to out on tape. Cam (who I personally have never mentioned, but do consider a game-changer) made it to the Super Bowl with Ted Ginn, Jerricho Cotchery, and Philly Brown and continually carried lower-tier gameplans and players to competent offensive performances.

This Carolina team does not YET appear to have an elite-level defense and Teddy has not YET shown that he can beat top-tier competition in this offense or elevate lower-tier offensive players; that does not mean he CAN NEVER, it just means it hasn't happened yet. He is doing very well in a promising system with arguably the best set of skill players Carolina has ever had, certainly since prime Smitty/Moose/Proehl. After 5 games things are pointing up and it's very possible he proves that he is more than Alex Smith. Alex Smith is a high-quality player that won a lot of games in good systems with good players around him, just like Teddy to date, but Alex Smith's body of work does not include beating the best when it comes to the playoffs and top-tier competition.

Can Teddy elevate past that? Very possible, and if so it opens Carolina's window that much wider.

It's that simple and straightforward. It really is. No disrespect or 'hating', no strawmen, no moving goalposts involved. Teddy and the team can only play the schedule as written and the opportunities are coming. Evidenced-based opinions don't seem to be en vogue at the moment but it is not unreasonable to only still be cautiously optimistic about Teddy, the new staff, and/or the team as a whole after a mere 5 weeks against what appears today to be largely middle-tier-or-lower competition. To say otherwise is disingenuous.

Love how the narratives change. Robby Anderson was just considered a Jag at wide-out when he was with the Jets just a speed guy who can take the top off of the defense. Ironically the same moniker Ted Ginn had before his stint with the Panthers. 

Now Robby is playing at an all pro level so far in this season having a even better start then Ginn did. The Qb play is a good reason for his start and why this offense passing attack is clicking. 

 

[KSpan]

13 minutes ago, Pantherxtreme said:

Love how the narratives change. Robby Anderson was just considered a Jag at wide-out when he was with the Jets just a speed guy who can take the top off of the defense. Ironically the same moniker Ted Ginn had before his stint with the Panthers. 

Now Robby is playing at an all pro level so far in this season having a even better start then Ginn did. The Qb play is a good reason for his start and why this offense passing attack is clicking. 

 

Where have I ever said anything negative about Robby? Definitely not in this post you quoted. Seems like you're the one changing narrative.

Just more strawmen.

[Pantherxtreme]

Just now, KSpan said:

Where have I ever said anything negative about Robby? Definitely not in this post you quoted. Seems like you're the one changing narrative.

Just more strawmen.

I thought Bridgewater couldn't elevate his teammates that's needed of a franchise Qb, Robby having a career year is just coincidence and coaching right?

But when Ted Ginn Jr. had his career season it was because he was playing with a franchise Qb, I gotcha. 

[KSpan]

5 minutes ago, Pantherxtreme said:

I thought Bridgewater couldn't elevate his teammates that's needed of a franchise Qb, Robby having a career year is just coincidence and coaching right?

But when Ted Ginn Jr. had his career season it was because he was playing with a franchise Qb, I gotcha. 

Hate to ruin your rock-solid logic there but I've always thought Robby was a very good receiver and have never said otherwise. Any more strawmen in there?

[Pantherxtreme]

Just now, KSpan said:

Hate to tell you but I've always thought Robby was a very good receiver and have never said otherwise. Any more strawmen in there?

I don't care what your personal opinion of Robby was, most football analyst and casual fans thought Robby was a good deep threat but limited receiver otherwise. 

Just like most people thought Ted Ginn had dynamic speed and a great runner after the catch but otherwise a marginal receiver. 

Both having career seasons but only one Qb getting the credit as elevating the play of the team around him. 

You can say you thought Robby was a very good receiver all along, but last season he had a 5 game stretch where he only caught 9 passes. He almost averaging that many catches a game now. The elevated Qb play of Bridgewater is a big part of that. 

[KSpan]

47 minutes ago, Pantherxtreme said:

I don't care what your personal opinion of Robby was, most football analyst and casual fans thought Robby was a good deep threat but limited receiver otherwise. 

Just like most people thought Ted Ginn had dynamic speed and a great runner after the catch but otherwise a marginal receiver. 

Both having career seasons but only one Qb getting the credit as elevating the play of the team around him. 

You can say you thought Robby was a very good receiver all along, but last season he had a 5 game stretch where he only caught 9 passes. He almost averaging that many catches a game now. The elevated Qb play of Bridgewater is a big part of that. 

Are you projecting a bit for this strawman...?

Sorry man but anyone with eyes could tell that Robby was a quality receiver trapped in a terrible situation. Even with abysmal QB play and Gase around the guy had 780 yards and was clearly the best player on that offense. In 2017 he had 941 yards on 63 catches with Josh McCown, a competent quarterback - and I think Teddy is better than McCown at this point - so your premise falls further apart.

Also again, I'm an Anderson guy. Great signing by Carolina whose performance, if it's supporting anything other than that he's as good as many thought he was, shows that the coaching staff appears to know how to maximize the skillset of their players. Which happens to also be a position I've held for a good while with respect to their choice of Teddy.